Francis Spurzheim Craig

[Sally]

There is evidence to support the premise that Elizabeth Davies and MJK were the same person. There is, as yet, no proof.

There is a clear distinction between the two.

[Limehouse]

Dane ,what should happen is that Mary Kelly should be dug up first conclusive d.n.a evidence obtained and then the book comes out instead we have a book coming out first without the evidence in my opinion no evidence then there should be no book.

Pinkmoon, you astound me! On a different thread, you vigorously and enthusiastically defended the proposed book and the theory of Dale, who insists that Vincent Van Gogh was JtR, when it is quite clear he was not even in the country at the time of the murders, and now you are screaming for 'evidence or no book'?

[dixon9]

for what it is worth(and i am only a novice in Ripper terms) i have to agree with Pink Moon,regarding get permission for the exhumation do the DNA,then bring out the book.
All fascinating though

[Dane_F]

Dane ,what should happen is that Mary Kelly should be dug up first conclusive d.n.a evidence obtained and then the book comes out instead we have a book coming out first without the evidence in my opinion no evidence then there should be no book.

At what expense? Who would pay for it and for the DNA testing? While in an ideal world that would be the proper order of things I understand the author not being able to finance such a project. When you combine that with the difficulty of possibly even finding the body I don't see how it is beyond the realm of expectation to allow the book to be released first and depending on if conclusive evidence is found to rule her out or not then exhuming the body.

No evidence then no book? Then we would certainly not have nearly any books on JTR at all. There have been entire documentaries made with less evidence presented, heck some even saying case closed. He is presenting a theory and has never indicated otherwise. It is only with extreme cynicism that people are not even willing to listen to his theory. To compare him to Patrica or The Shawl is very disingenuous. It's not even as if he is trying to milk the ripper community, the kindle edition is all of 5 pounds.

[pinkmoon]

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. How people have treated Prospector I feel has gone well beyond that however.

I personally have no idea how all of this will play out but when someone definitively makes a statement such as they have gained permission baring certain criteria being met I am inclined to believe he is not directly lying to my face.

It very well could be that an exhumation will never take place, but that is completely different than permission being granted.

Dane ,what should happen is that Mary Kelly should be dug up first conclusive d.n.a evidence obtained and then the book comes out instead we have a book coming out first without the evidence in my opinion no evidence then there should be no book.

[Dane_F]

The thing is Dane you've got to bear in mind that some of the people on here like me have been interested in this case for over 30,40 even 50 years and we have been witness to some major scams that is why we are sceptical. like I said before it will come to be that this can only be proved if Mary is dug up and the authorities will not let this to happen so the author can stand there and blame the authorities for stopping his case from been proven....welcome to shovelgate.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. How people have treated Prosector I feel has gone well beyond that however.

I personally have no idea how all of this will play out but when someone definitively makes a statement such as they have gained permission baring certain criteria being met I am inclined to believe he is not directly lying to my face.

It very well could be that an exhumation will never take place, but that is completely different than permission being granted.

[pinkmoon]

The thing is Dane you've got to bear in mind that some of the people on here like me have been interested in this case for over 30,40 even 50 years and we have been witness to some major scams that is why we are sceptical. like I said before it will come to be that this can only be proved if Mary is dug up and the authorities will not let this happen so the author can stand there and blame the authorities for stopping his case from been proven....welcome to shovelgate.

[Dane_F]

There is also Prospector's direct comment in post #22 here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8954&page=3

Where he says very directly that he has already gained permission but there are other issues with the exhumation.

Now if you want to believe someone is openly lying that's a completely different thing. Until it's proven he is lying however, I will believe that what he has said is true.

[pinkmoon]

I am sorry Dane, but the article actually says that the question needs "long and detailed consideration" and if two criteria are met then it will be considered.

Gut,we've been here before havnt we.

[GUT]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-new-book.html

No one is saying it won't be hard or a challenge or even saying that it will 100% happen. But your stance of "no way permission would be granted" is completely wrong. Permission has already been granted. Not only does this article say it but Prospector himself had said he has already received permission to exhume the remains, if he so chooses to go through with it.

I am sorry Dane, but the article actually says that the question needs "long and detailed consideration" and if two criteria are met then it will be considered.

[pinkmoon]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-new-book.html

No one is saying it won't be hard or a challenge or even saying that it will 100% happen. But your stance of "no way permission would be granted" is completely wrong. Permission has already been granted. Not only does this article say it but Prospector himself had said he has already received permission to exhume the remains, if he so chooses to go through with it.

Leave it like that

[Dane_F]

There is no way permission would be granted to exhume a body with such flimsy "evidence".Also because of uncertainty where her body actually is a few graves would have to be disturbed it just won't happen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-new-book.html

No one is saying it won't be hard or a challenge or even saying that it will 100% happen. But your stance of "no way permission would be granted" is completely wrong. Permission has already been granted. Not only does this article say it but Prospector himself had said he has already received permission to exhume the remains, if he so chooses to go through with it.

[GUT]

Hi,
We should not forget all the facts, even the circumstantial material we have come across over the years, these have to be allotted to any new theory, Its a great angle for a book , insisting that exhumation will take place, but then add depending on the interest in the book.
I would suggest exhumation first, then write that book when the details are known...
Regards Richard.

That's my thoughts too.

[pinkmoon]

I thought I read somewhere that he had already gotten approval and there were just certain steps that had to be taken before exhumation could take place.

There is no way permission would be granted to exhume a body with such flimsy "evidence".Also because of uncertainty where her body actually is a few graves would have to be disturbed it just won't happen.

[Digit]

Its a nice theory but it breaks one major assumption about the MJK killer.

And that is that she didnt know her killer. The idea that she would trust her ex husband, who had spent years tracking her down, enough to go off to her lodgings alone with him just does not hold water.

Its at least 90% certain she never knew her killer and that he was someone who didnt betray his state of mind.

I do agree with the author that it had to be someone living close to where all the killings took place, as someone with blood on them couldnt have travelled too far, but it was not senior Craig (unless it can be proved from the DNA that he wasnt her ex husband).