Was The Ripper A Police Official?

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

Since the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to a lot of material from the old testament and since most of that material is generated during the Babylonian exile it dates back to the exile in Babylon. And as you can notice if you read the scrolls, most of the newest material also refers to that older material.

Regards, Pierre

You mean that the scrolls written later, contain information which apparently comes from the exile. They are then not the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were. Thank you for that .
I did actually ask for source details to back up your statement, it appears from what you say the Scrolls only refer to the exile they do not date from it.

Ps i should correct part of the above:"They are then not the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were."


to read: "Not all of the scrolls are the the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were., However they obviously are important documents and do give an insight of how the wordings and the structure of the texts have changed ."


Thank you Pierre for that discussion.

[Pierre]

You mean that the scrolls written later, contain information which apparently comes from the exile. They are then not the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were. Thank you for that .
I did actually ask for source details to back up your statement, it appears from what you say the Scrolls only refer to the exile they do not date from it.

Ps i should correct part of the above:"They are then not the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were."


to read: "Not all of the scrolls are the the primary sources I mistakenly believed they were., However they obviously are important documents and do give an insight of how the wordings and the structure of the texts have changed ."


Thank you Pierre for that discussion.

Thanks Steve.

Kind regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

one final thought on the scrolls Pierre:

"since most of that material is generated during the Babylonian exile it dates back to the exile in Babylon."

surly that statement is inaccurate. it certainly refers back to Babylon, but since the scrolls are all written after that period, we cannot know if there are any changes to the texts. to say they can be dated to the exile in Babylon is an over simplification is it not?
would it not be better to say that they are the oldest records available, which may be copies of documents written during the exile.

my interest was sparked because i was assuming some new dating had been made from your statement, a little disappointed its just interpretation. but i have found it stimulating.

all the best

[DJA]

Academic historians and sociologists are critical thinkers. We start by criticizing our own thinking.

And by the way. I think you should read the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most of its material date back to the exile in Babylon. And there they had a "teacher of righteousness". Do you know who he was? He was the opposite to Ezra. And his life story is the later greek construction of Jesus. So as you can see, the old testament and the new are only social political texts. And social political texts can not be found in stones.

Absolute garbage.

Less than a quarter of the Dead Sea Scrolls relate to the Exile and are mainly copies.

The Teacher of Righteousness pre dated Jesus,although some scholars suspect he was James the brother of Jesus/James the Just/Bar Abbas.

Your ever changing data and sources are just the latest thing you find and fantasise about.

Little foundation in reality.

[Monty]

Hi Monty,

I really hate to do this, but actually there was a case of a uniformed constable, George Cooke, who in 1893 murdered his ex-girl friend (whom he tried to reform), a prostitute who would not take his final rejection of her and determined to make him rue it. Cooke beat her to death with his truncheon while on his beat near Wormwood Scrubs prison, and subsequently finished his rounds, and then went home. Eventually he was tried, convicted, and hanged for the murder (the only P.C. to suffer that fate in England, although in 1875 Superintendent Thomas Montgomery was hanged after three trials for the "Omagh" murder of a bank employee during a robbery in that town in Ireland). As I say, I hate to mention this because it may give a false sense of triumph to Pierre, but it is true.

Due to the severe provocation Cooke suffered from his vicious ex-girlfriend, there was a serious attempt by the trial jury and the public to get his sentence commuted. It was opposed by the trial judge, Sir Henry "'Anging" Hawkins, Baron Brampton, who felt it would give the law abiding public the wrong idea.

Jeff

I'm very aware of the Cooke case Jeff, as I've just written about him for the new book and visited the SOC last summer. .

I should have included " and get away with it" at the end. Cooke was bought to justice via his vigilant landlady, as he tried to bury his truncheon.

It would have only been a matter of time for Cooke to have been bought to justice. As his appointment was unaccounted for, and suspicion was already being drawn before the landlady reported what she saw.

The fact the Whitechapel murders covers 3 jurisdictions, does not support an on duty constable as Jack. The double event especially draws its own issues with such a theory as even reserves were drawn upon.

And a singular murder is not comparable to a series.

Pierres theory needs to address these issues, and many more. Time will tell if he/she can. So far, based on what has been presented, I say Pierre cannot. It flounders on three points already. And one serious one.

That being, and as shown by David and Steve, Pierre is ignorant of Police procedure of the period.

Monty

[Wickerman]

Dear Pierre,

I wish to ask you something as a matter general historical interest.
it is therefore, slightly off topic, but i hope you will be able to help me.
Given that my real passion in life is Egyptology, the history of neighbouring states does hold an interest for me.

Regarding the dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls. could you point me in the direction of the source for the above statement, has I was always under the Impression that the scrolls were from a later period.

Ah, an academic subject on Casebook?
Just a brief query, have you read The Mystery of the Copper Scroll of Qumran by Robert Feather?
The fact he is a metallurgist just added to the intrigue of his theory for me.

[Elamarna]

Ah, an academic subject on Casebook?
Just a brief query, have you read The Mystery of the Copper Scroll of Qumran by Robert Feather?
The fact he is a metallurgist just added to the intrigue of his theory for me.

Not read the book, but saw the tv documentary.

his interpretation I found seriously wanting, but his actual science was very interesting.

of course it may be better in the book.

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

and thanks.

But just because you find fossils that "match" the stories in Genesis does not mean there is a god.

And just because I find sources "matching" other sources in a persons life doesn´t mean he was Jack the Ripper.

Academic historians and sociologists are critical thinkers. We start by criticizing our own thinking.

And by the way. I think you should read the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most of its material date back to the exile in Babylon. And there they had a "teacher of righteousness". Do you know who he was? He was the opposite to Ezra. And his life story is the later greek construction of Jesus. So as you can see, the old testament and the new are only social political texts. And social political texts can not be found in stones.

Kind regards, Pierre

Boy, have you messed up my point. Critical thinking is exactly what my book's about. I am aware of the teacher of righteousness from the Dead Sea scrolls. Old news. I'm also aware of how you've cherry picked the evidence. Sorry.

[mklhawley]

...the teacher of righteousness conforms best to John the Baptist while the wicked priest conforms best to Jesus.

Now, back to Ripperology.

[Elamarna]

Absolute garbage.

Less than a quarter of the Dead Sea Scrolls relate to the Exile and are mainly copies.

The Teacher of Righteousness pre dated Jesus,although some scholars suspect he was James the brother of Jesus/James the Just/Bar Abbas.

Your ever changing data and sources are just the latest thing you find and fantasise about.

Little foundation in reality.

Yes DJA

I have spent several hours scouring the internet and my reference books in an attempt to confirm to myself what Pierre as said was accurate given he gave no figures.

I have found figures from as low as 22% up to around 40% quoted for the total percentage of scrolls that refer to copies of texts from the old testament.

I must say this surprised me because Pierre had originally said:

"Most of its material date back to the exile in Babylon"

"Most of ", surely means more than half, 50%+.


No matter how much I have searched i have not been able find data to back up Pierre's statement. I do however of course concede that 3-4 hours is a relatively short search period, but I would have expected, indeed did expect to find something.

However i reread what Pierre had written in his reply to me, it was somewhat different from his first statement.

"Since the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to a lot of material from the old testament and since most of that material is generated during the Babylonian exile it dates back to the exile"

He is no longer saying "most", just "a lot", which of course can mean anything, and he then qualifies it by saying "most" of the "a lot" of material was generated in Babylon.


We could for the sake of argument, deduce that the "a lot" is somewhere between the sources I have found, lets say 32% and most of (51%+)that was generated in the exile.

However none of the documents were produced during the exile and in fact are copies.

It would appear that Pierre's statement:

"since most of that material is generated during the Babylonian exile it dates back to the exile"

is not in fact accurate.

I know this is somewhat off topic, but it does portray I believe a consistent failure in Pierre’s arguments.

differently my last comments on the Dead Sea Scrolls

[GUT]

Pierre inaccurate tell me it ain't so just lost faith in everything, if you can't trust Pierre to be honest and accurate.

[Wickerman]

Not read the book, but saw the tv documentary.

his interpretation I found seriously wanting, but his actual science was very interesting.

of course it may be better in the book.

I think I saw the/a documentary on the subject, I found a couple of holes in his theory regarding the hieroglyphs, but his analysis of the copper, its origin and presumed provenance is harder to question, given his profession.

[DJA]

I have found figures from as low as 22% up to around 40% quoted for the total percentage of scrolls that refer to copies of texts from the old testament.


No matter how much I have searched i have not been able find data to back up Pierre's statement. I do however of course concede that 3-4 hours is a relatively short search period, but I would have expected, indeed did expect to find something.


I know this is somewhat off topic, but it does portray I believe a consistent failure in Pierre’s arguments.

It was background research for a project on the Herodian Dynasty and Jesus and his followers that I spent quite some time working on.

Paul Verhoeven has been attempting to get a movie made on the Hasmonean/Maccabee saga for several years.

Most people have not dug very deep and have very superficial ideas.

Thought Jack the Ripper would be an easy project that would take a maximum 7 years to get into production.

[Elamarna]

It was background research for a project on the Herodian Dynasty and Jesus and his followers that I spent quite some time working on.

Paul Verhoeven has been attempting to get a movie made on the Hasmonean/Maccabee saga for several years.

Most people have not dug very deep and have very superficial ideas.

Thought Jack the Ripper would be an easy project that would take a maximum 7 years to get into production.

i assume from that you are still no nearer a result. sorry

Steve

[DJA]

Just require a suitable scriptwriter.