Jon Guy:
What ? The tarpaulin was useless ?!?!?
It must have been. You said yourself that "The only thing that was left lying around was the rubbish that could not be re-used or traded."
Look, Jon, I think you should stop trying to patronize me. I know quite well that people were poor back then, but I also know that not ALL were poor in the East End. You are painting your canvas with one colour and the same brush, and most people like that. Thatīs how they want their East End - a pack of starving people, fighting in the street over bread crumbs.
Letīs try and be a bit more discriminate.
If it had been a tarpaulin, many people in the East End would have scavenged it.
If Lechmere was telling the truth about things, then he did see it as a tarpaulin, and there is good reason to believe that he may have considered scavenging it.
However, once we accept that Lechmere told the truth, we must accept that it was a coincidence that:
-Paul didnīt hear or see Lechmere.
-Lechmere only heard Paul when he was very close.
-the clothes were covering her wounds.
-he gave the name Cross instead of his real name.
-he told Mizen a story he would not confess to at the inquest.
-he had a working trek that took him past most murder sites.
-he had ties to the rest of the killing fields.
-he would not help propping Nichols up.
-he was in Buckīs Row when he should have been much further down Hanbury Street.
All of these matters must be looked upon as unlucky coincidences, with no significance to the crime.
Do you, Jon, share my view that ANYBODY who is found ALONE by a freshly murdered person MUST be looked upon with suspicion until we can clear them?
If you do, do you consider Lechmere cleared in this respect? Because otherwise, it applies that you need to look at the further developments and see if you can find one single, small anomaly - or heaps of them.
If you accept that ANYBODY who is found ALONE by a freshly murdered person MUST be looked upon with suspicion until we can clear them, and if you DO find anomalies like lies, identity swops and a number of other things - what do you think should be the reaction to such things?
How do you propose to clear Lechmere?
You contradict yourself. Didn`t you just state that the tarpaulin was useless ?
Yes, but that was in an ironic recognition of your own argument, that you seem to have discredited by now - NOT all things left behind WERE useless, apparently.
So, if he lost, damaged or had his Pickford`s tarpaulin he wouldn`t have to pay to cover damages or have it replaced ? Because that`s how it worked in those days. If you lost or damaged company property it was taken out of your wages.
Thatīs one point for you - yes, that is a reason why he could have wanted to scavenge the tarpaulin, admittedly.
Well, 10 feet away from a freshly killed woman.
Donīt even go there. We donīt exactly know how close he was, but we DO know that he was there alone, so he COULD have been by her side previously, stabbing away at her. Nothing else matters.
So, Paul, at 3.30 in the morning trudging to work, was half asleep and not cocking his head like a hawk.
We need to put these things in perspective, it was 3.30 in the morning. !!
It was 3.45. Half asleep? He was late for work and hurrying along, he said so himself. And Lechmere said he would no doubt hear if anybody stirred by the gates of Brownīs, 130 yards away.
Plus the two men would have walked in tandem underneath the brewery lamps in Bath Street.
And the man who said he didnīt hear Paul until very late, was a man who lied about his real name to the police, who conned his way past a PC and who was found totally alone by a freshly killed murder victim, where the wounds to the stomach were covered.
Once again, do you or do you not ascribe any value to such matters in terms of potential guilt?
Quite simply, the best choice would have been to tell the truth.
Even if he was the killer? Can we get real any time soon?
The best,
Fisherman
What ? The tarpaulin was useless ?!?!?
It must have been. You said yourself that "The only thing that was left lying around was the rubbish that could not be re-used or traded."
Look, Jon, I think you should stop trying to patronize me. I know quite well that people were poor back then, but I also know that not ALL were poor in the East End. You are painting your canvas with one colour and the same brush, and most people like that. Thatīs how they want their East End - a pack of starving people, fighting in the street over bread crumbs.
Letīs try and be a bit more discriminate.
If it had been a tarpaulin, many people in the East End would have scavenged it.
If Lechmere was telling the truth about things, then he did see it as a tarpaulin, and there is good reason to believe that he may have considered scavenging it.
However, once we accept that Lechmere told the truth, we must accept that it was a coincidence that:
-Paul didnīt hear or see Lechmere.
-Lechmere only heard Paul when he was very close.
-the clothes were covering her wounds.
-he gave the name Cross instead of his real name.
-he told Mizen a story he would not confess to at the inquest.
-he had a working trek that took him past most murder sites.
-he had ties to the rest of the killing fields.
-he would not help propping Nichols up.
-he was in Buckīs Row when he should have been much further down Hanbury Street.
All of these matters must be looked upon as unlucky coincidences, with no significance to the crime.
Do you, Jon, share my view that ANYBODY who is found ALONE by a freshly murdered person MUST be looked upon with suspicion until we can clear them?
If you do, do you consider Lechmere cleared in this respect? Because otherwise, it applies that you need to look at the further developments and see if you can find one single, small anomaly - or heaps of them.
If you accept that ANYBODY who is found ALONE by a freshly murdered person MUST be looked upon with suspicion until we can clear them, and if you DO find anomalies like lies, identity swops and a number of other things - what do you think should be the reaction to such things?
How do you propose to clear Lechmere?
You contradict yourself. Didn`t you just state that the tarpaulin was useless ?
Yes, but that was in an ironic recognition of your own argument, that you seem to have discredited by now - NOT all things left behind WERE useless, apparently.
So, if he lost, damaged or had his Pickford`s tarpaulin he wouldn`t have to pay to cover damages or have it replaced ? Because that`s how it worked in those days. If you lost or damaged company property it was taken out of your wages.
Thatīs one point for you - yes, that is a reason why he could have wanted to scavenge the tarpaulin, admittedly.
Well, 10 feet away from a freshly killed woman.
Donīt even go there. We donīt exactly know how close he was, but we DO know that he was there alone, so he COULD have been by her side previously, stabbing away at her. Nothing else matters.
So, Paul, at 3.30 in the morning trudging to work, was half asleep and not cocking his head like a hawk.
We need to put these things in perspective, it was 3.30 in the morning. !!
It was 3.45. Half asleep? He was late for work and hurrying along, he said so himself. And Lechmere said he would no doubt hear if anybody stirred by the gates of Brownīs, 130 yards away.
Plus the two men would have walked in tandem underneath the brewery lamps in Bath Street.
And the man who said he didnīt hear Paul until very late, was a man who lied about his real name to the police, who conned his way past a PC and who was found totally alone by a freshly killed murder victim, where the wounds to the stomach were covered.
Once again, do you or do you not ascribe any value to such matters in terms of potential guilt?
Quite simply, the best choice would have been to tell the truth.
Even if he was the killer? Can we get real any time soon?
The best,
Fisherman
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