Doctor Jack?

[Herlock Sholmes]

A catchy, but not very accurate title.

Over the years the question of the ripper’s medical/anatomical knowledge and skill has been regularly debated. Not being someone with medical training or knowledge I’ve been undecided as to the level required but it does appear unlikely that the killer could have removed organs without knowledge/skill?

So who do we know, of the named suspects, who would have had such medical/anatomical knowledge and skill. For the time being I’ll ignore those with animal butchering skills but we can add them later as a secondary category. All suggestions welcome (including questioning those mentioned)

George Chapman
William Gull
Francis Thompson
Henry Gawen Sutton
Oswald Puckridge

[Geddy2112]

For me, again not a qualified doctor (but know where most 'bits' are) I think there is a huge difference between being a doctor, a surgeon, having medical knowledge and having surgical skills. These terms seems to get intertwined in the case but as I've said are rather different.

For me to whip out a kidney in near darkness under time pressure without doing much damaging to other areas our killer must have had some training or anatomical knowledge, even some surgical skills unless of course he just stuck his hands in there and took what he could. Removing a kidney through the front was not common until much later in the 1900s much later.

I think we have to make a collective statement on what each category means before we move on... i.e. what qualifies as 'doctor' 'surgical skill' 'anatomical knowledge' etc

[GBinOz]

Hi Herlock,

Grainger was reputed to have had medical qualifications, although I haven't been able to locate any formal declaration of this possibility, and he wasn't pursuing that vocation so his practised dissection skills may not qualify him for the role. Grainger was identified as the ripper by someone, suspected to be Lawende, but it should be added (and this will make your day) that Grainer bore a remarkable resemblance to Druitt.

I think that the highest possibility is someone familiar, and highly active, in the dissecting or autopsy room. Francis Thompson comes to mind, or someone like him. I think this this was the category of suspect to whom Prosector was pointing.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s a tricky one and I’m now perhaps regretting starting this thread because it can’t really get us anywhere. There’s no consensus. In general, maybe..


Medical knowledge/ experience of surgical knife use.
General medical knowledge (a doctor/physician etc)
Anatomical knowledge gained by other means? A bit vague this one.
Butchering skills (animals)

[GBinOz]

It’s a tricky one and I’m now perhaps regretting starting this thread because it can’t really get us anywhere. There’s no consensus. In general, maybe..


Medical knowledge/ experience of surgical knife use.
General medical knowledge (a doctor/physician etc)
Anatomical knowledge gained by other means? A bit vague this one.
Butchering skills (animals)

Have no regrets my friend. Who knows what may turn up in replies to your thread.

I will take this opportunity to add that in addition to Thompson, or someone of that ilk, I find Sutton to be a person of interest worthy of further consideration.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Grainger was reputed to have had medical qualifications, although I haven't been able to locate any formal declaration of this possibility, and he wasn't pursuing that vocation so his practised dissection skills may not qualify him for the role. Grainger was identified as the ripper by someone, suspected to be Lawende, but it should be added (and this will make your day) that Grainer bore a remarkable resemblance to Druitt.

I think that the highest possibility is someone familiar, and highly active, in the dissecting or autopsy room. Francis Thompson comes to mind, or someone like him. I think this this was the category of suspect to whom Prosector was pointing.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I just checked Morley’s JtR Suspects book where he mentions a letter sent by Grainger’s solicitor, George Kebbell, to the Pall Mall Gazette in which he said:

”In reply to claims in Sir Robert Anderson’s memoirs that Jack the Ripper was a Polish Jew, the Ripper was not a Jew, but an Irishman, educated for the medical profession, and for reasons not known disowned by his relatives. This man was caught in the very act, in an alley in Spitalfields.”

Apparently L. Forbes Winslow in 1910 agreed on Grainger’s medical training (although we don’t know what he based this on) but he didn’t think that he was the ripper although this opinion looks like it was because he believed that the evidence was strong for his own suspect, G. Wentworth Bell-Smith. At this point though George I don’t know whether anyone has been able to confirm or refute the suggestion that he had medical training?

I’ll try and have a look around later today to see what research might have been done. One of the first doubts about Grainger though is the fact that he was arrested for his attack in 1895. It does seem that his whereabouts in 1888 are unknown though although Morley says that he may have been in Cork (which means that he may not have been of course)

[Herlock Sholmes]

Have no regrets my friend. Who knows what may turn up in replies to your thread.

I will take this opportunity to add that in addition to Thompson, or someone of that ilk, I find Sutton to be a person of interest worthy of further consideration.

It’s just a pity that we can’t get a definite on the level of skill and knowledge required by the killer.

[jerryd]

Apparently L. Forbes Winslow in 1910 agreed on Grainger’s medical training (although we don’t know what he based this on) but he didn’t think that he was the ripper although this opinion looks like it was because he believed that the evidence was strong for his own suspect, G. Wentworth Bell-Smith. At this point though George I don’t know whether anyone has been able to confirm or refute the suggestion that he had medical training?

Grainger's own solicitor, George Kebbell, stated he was an Irishman, trained in the medical field but for some reason disowned by his parents.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Grainger's own solicitor, George Kebbell, stated he was an Irishman, trained in the medical field but for some reason disowned by his parents.

Hi Jerry,

Have you come across anything more concrete on the subject of his medical training?

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Have you come across anything more concrete on the subject of his medical training?

"Are you the medical student? Grant said he was."

Grainger's own words. I guess still may not be concrete if you don't believe his words to be honest?

Early 20th Century Articles *** January 1906-December 1910 - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (Post #126)

[Herlock Sholmes]

"Are you the medical student? Grant said he was."

Grainger's own words. I guess still may not be concrete if you don't believe his words to be honest?

Early 20th Century Articles *** January 1906-December 1910 - Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century (Post #126)

Thanks Jerry.

[Trevor Marriott]

It’s just a pity that we can’t get a definite on the level of skill and knowledge required by the killer.

I think you should read again the review of the post-mortem reports by modern-day medical experts that I have provided. The level of skill required by the killer is clearly documented

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Ms Diddles]

A catchy, but not very accurate title.

Over the years the question of the ripper’s medical/anatomical knowledge and skill has been regularly debated. Not being someone with medical training or knowledge I’ve been undecided as to the level required but it does appear unlikely that the killer could have removed organs without knowledge/skill?

So who do we know, of the named suspects, who would have had such medical/anatomical knowledge and skill. For the time being I’ll ignore those with animal butchering skills but we can add them later as a secondary category. All suggestions welcome (including questioning those mentioned)

George Chapman
William Gull
Francis Thompson
Henry Gawen Sutton
Oswald Puckridge

Neill Cream could be added to your list.

He had the medical training although I'm pretty confident it wasn't him.

Also, I'm trying to remember the details of Tumblety's medical knowledge.

I know he was a herbalist and a quack, but I can't remember if he had anything resembling a medical background.

It's been ages since I read anything Tumblety related.

[Geddy2112]

It’s just a pity that we can’t get a definite on the level of skill and knowledge required by the killer.

For me unfortunately it's down to if he deliberately targeted certain organs. If he did, like the kidney from Eddowes then his skill level would be much higher than if he opened up the abdomen and just had a rummage to see what he could grab.

I think the London Hospital on Whitechapel Road certainly comes into play in this case. It's too obvious not too. Unless it's a double bluff so to speak....

[Herlock Sholmes]

Neill Cream could be added to your list.

He had the medical training although I'm pretty confident it wasn't him.

Also, I'm trying to remember the details of Tumblety's medical knowledge.

I know he was a herbalist and a quack, but I can't remember if he had anything resembling a medical background.

It's been ages since I read anything Tumblety related.

I’m pretty sure that Tumblety had no medical training Ms D and we know that Cream was in Joliet Prison in Chicago at the time of the murders. It didn’t stop someone claiming that he had a doppleganger serve his sentence for him though. You know….just as often happens in the prison system.