Rating The Suspects.

[GBinOz]

There's a much bigger puzzle if thats the case George, ......TIME.

Now then Fishy. Try to refrain from attempting to be inscrutable and elaborate.

Cheers, George

[The Rookie Detective]

Hello Paul,

Sugden does a nice job of discussing this very issue in his The Complete History of Jack the Ripper. After a very thorough analysis involving game times, train schedules etc. his conclusion is that Druitt cannot be ruled out based on his cricket match. Memory is fuzzy but there is evidence he did play.

c.d.

Francis Thompson was also obsessed with cricket and often bunked off his anatomy classes to go and watch his beloved Lancashire play at Old Trafford.

He favoured cricket over cadavers.

[FISHY1118]

Now then Fishy. Try to refrain from attempting to be inscrutable and elaborate.

Cheers, George

Sure thing George ,but I thought it was obvious given what we know about Chapmans murder and what Phillips said how long it would take him to inflict all her injuries. Now compare that to Eddowes 7 to 10 mins tops to do what was an obvious medical technique / procedure, which murder with all the said injuries should have taken more time ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Was Druit playing cricket somewhere when one of the murders were committed.
If my memory serves me well it was pretty much drawn to a conclusion that If he was at cricket then he couldn’t be Jack.
No one produced conclusive evidence that he was or was not at said cricket match.
So inconclusive evidence to his where abouts for a particular murder but he’s allowed in.
who’s setting the bar here , what are the rules ?

The reality is Paul that the evidence of the cricket match doesn’t even approach exonerating Druitt and can safely be dismissed as such. People tend to jump on any old excuse to try and dismiss Druitt and the fact that it doesn’t do so is the cause of annoyance. The game finished early (most likely due to rain) and only around 90 or so runs were scored in the two innings that they managed to play. We don’t know what time the game started but when researchers checked train times it was obvious that he could have got to London. For all that we know he could have left the ground by 2pm.

Then we have ‘likelihood’ with people saying well why would he have travelled all the way back to London to murder? Firstly, if guilty, he was a serial killer and serial killers don’t think as we do, so we can’t claim to know what was in a persons mind or how he would or wouldn’t behave in any given situation. Secondly, Druitt was a Barrister, he was Treasurer of the Blackheath Club, he was a schoolteacher. He would have had appointments and meetings to attend. So as Druitt was going to Dorset for a summer break during which time he had agreed to play cricket for a local team what does he do? Postpone his entire holiday for a week and let the team down? Or go to Dorset, play the game, and return by train for his meeting. It could have been the case that he intended to return on an early train on the 31st for a midday appointment but when the game finished early he decided to go to London that evening to avoid an early start. We just don’t know, but to try and dismiss Druitt on these grounds is feeble to say the least.

There’s one other thing that we did find out though Paul. After researching the cricket matches it no appears that, despite what DJ Leighton wrote, Druitt no longer has an alibi for Tabram either.

[GBinOz]

Sure thing George ,but I thought it was obvious given what we know about Chapmans murder and what Phillips said how long it would take him to inflict all her injuries. Now compare that to Eddowes 7 to 10 mins tops to do what was an obvious medical technique / procedure, which murder with all the said injuries should have taken more time ?

Hi Fishy,

I'm not sure that we know so much about Chapman's murder. Phillips said that he estimated around 15 minutes to visit the injuries upon Chapman. But he also said that he thought those injuries were inflicted under the cover of darkness. Fifteen minutes is a long time to be exposed in broad daylight subject to an amphitheatre of potential witnesses.

That said, I agree that the time generally supposed for the Eddowes injuries seems to be insufficient. Resort has to be made to either Trevor's theory, to which I am not opposed, or that the perpetrator was skilled and very experienced in dissection procedures. I believe that this level of required competence exceeds that possessed by popular named suspects.

Cheers, George

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi Fishy,

I'm not sure that we know so much about Chapman's murder. Phillips said that he estimated around 15 minutes to visit the injuries upon Chapman. But he also said that he thought those injuries were inflicted under the cover of darkness. Fifteen minutes is a long time to be exposed in broad daylight subject to an amphitheatre of potential witnesses.

That said, I agree that the time generally supposed for the Eddowes injuries seems to be insufficient. Resort has to be made to either Trevor's theory, to which I am not opposed, or that the perpetrator was skilled and very experienced in dissection procedures. I believe that this level of required competence exceeds that possessed by popular named suspects.

Cheers, George

I'm inclined to agree George.

It would seem likely that between murders, the killer was actively learning and progressing his particular skill set, which would in turn imply that he was actively working as either a butcher or a doctor/surgeon.
It have always seemed to me that the killer was learning as he went along; hence the level of progression between Chapman and Eddowes.

I would even go so far as to suggest that any women who went missing between Chapman and Eddowes, may have been kept captive in a bolt hole somewhere, and then dispatched accordingly so that he could practice on their bodies between murders.

He may have kidnapped women, and then used their bodies for practice for when he went out on the streets for real; hence my belief that he may have also been the Torso killer.

Macabre, but a viable hypothesis IMO.

[Lewis C]

Was Druit playing cricket somewhere when one of the murders were committed.
If my memory serves me well it was pretty much drawn to a conclusion that If he was at cricket then he couldn’t be Jack.
No one produced conclusive evidence that he was or was not at said cricket match.
So inconclusive evidence to his where abouts for a particular murder but he’s allowed in.
who’s setting the bar here , what are the rules ?

Hi Paul,

Druitt played cricket a few hours after one of the murders. The possibility of him committing the murder and then playing cricket cannot be ruled out, but each of us must assess for ourselves how likely it is that this is what happened.

[Lewis C]

Hi Fishy,

I'm not sure that we know so much about Chapman's murder. Phillips said that he estimated around 15 minutes to visit the injuries upon Chapman. But he also said that he thought those injuries were inflicted under the cover of darkness. Fifteen minutes is a long time to be exposed in broad daylight subject to an amphitheatre of potential witnesses.

That said, I agree that the time generally supposed for the Eddowes injuries seems to be insufficient. Resort has to be made to either Trevor's theory, to which I am not opposed, or that the perpetrator was skilled and very experienced in dissection procedures. I believe that this level of required competence exceeds that possessed by popular named suspects.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I think another possibility is that the killer may have had more time with Eddowes than what we think that he most likely had.

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

I think another possibility is that the killer may have had more time with Eddowes than what we think that he most likely had.

Hi Lewis,

I agree. But the obvious dissection technique remains which can only be aided by more time.

Cheers, George

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi Lewis,

I agree. But the obvious dissection technique remains which can only be aided by more time.

Cheers, George

That's the crux of the entire debate surrounding Eddowes murder.

The killer would have needed time to do what he did.

But not too much time.

Otherwise he would have been caught.


It seems almost certain that Harvey was pretty much looking straight at the Ripper at the point Harvey was facing down the alley towards the square.

So one must question why the killer didn't flee if there was a policeman directly within his line of sight.

The answer seems almost too obvious.

How did the killer know that Harvey couldn't see him?

The Ripper had entered the square via the same alley and as he walked with Eddowes, he had observed that nothing and nobody could be seen in the corner.

Hence why he chose that spot to kill Eddowes.

This was the same entrance into the Square that Lawrende saw a man with Eddowes.

It seems extremely likely that Lawrende did indeed see Eddowes just a few minutes before she was murdered, and the man with his back to Lawrende was the Ripper.

The ripper whilst impulsive, was also clever and calculated, and chose his timing carefully.

The killer was then free to have time with Eddowes between Watkins beats.

But one question arises from this...

How did the Ripper know of Watkins beat, both in terms of timings and route?

Well, 2 answers are most likely...

He either somehow physically saw Watkins leave the square when he was standing with Eddowes.

Or...he must have known Watkins beat timings and route in advance.

And that denotes an intelligent killer with both foresight and the ability to calculate and measure risk.

Which doesn't sound like the behaviour of a lunatic who ate from the gutter.

I think that there has always been a focus on whether the killer chose his victims randomly, or in advance, but the more poignant question is... did he choose his locations too?

I think so, based on the murder of Eddowes.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’d suggest it at least possible that Harvey didn’t bother going to the bottom of Church Passage. He was sacked on July 1st 1889 but we don’t know why but it’s far from impossible that he might have been the kind of officer who cut corners. A second suggestion (and that’s all that it is) is that maybe the killer saw Harvey’s lamp at the top of Church Passage so he walked away and concealed himself somewhere. If the killer knew that Harvey’s beat didn’t include entering the square then he was ok as long as Harvey didn’t spot the body from the passage. If the killer didn’t know Harvey’s beat he may just have walked into Mitre Street then when he’d heard no whistle he’d have known that he was safe to return to the corpse.

[GBinOz]

It seems extremely likely that Lawrende did indeed see Eddowes just a few minutes before she was murdered, and the man with his back to Lawende was the Ripper.

Hi RD,

Once again I beg to differ. Lawende and friends noticed a couple in the street. Not an unusual occurrence, except that it was afterwards discovered that A woman had been murdered nearby. Lawende identified the unexceptional clothing, not the woman. Consider the possibility of "this is all we have, so we'll go with this".

Cheers, George

[Sunny Delight]

There is not one suspect who was named that really has any evidence against them. Robert Anderson was forthright in his opinion that the case was solved to his satisfaction. Donald Swanson elaborated that a person was identified by a so far unidentified witness, who did so without hesitation. This suspect was called Kosminski. The finer details we are unsure about, where this took place, who was there, when exactly did it occur and who was the witness.

But we surely have to take the two most senior officers on the case at their word, that this did occur and that whoever the witness was, they had been honest in identifying Kosminski. I think on deeper exploration much of the case falls apart, if it was Aaron. But it may not have been. So this Kosminski person has to be the best suspect by a distance.

Other names I think are pretty much a waste of time. William Bury could possibly be a candidatd but for me the evidence is very weak. George Chapman is in the conversation but again it's a weak case.