Peaked Cap Man

[lynn cates]

"That's old news, Dicky."

Hello Abby.

"quite frankly I am a little surprised more people have not jumped on this one"

Actually, several have.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

peak

Hello Alicia. Welcome to the boards.

"Regarding the peaked cap -- it makes sense it was not a sailor because the witnesses would have said sailor cap."

Some head gear is difficult to distinguish at night. Note that even a deerstalker could be interpreted as a peaked cap--given only a frontal view.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

The man was seen at 1:30am, ....how does that time fit with any theories?

close enough and you know it, epecially since it is obvious that the person would be estimating a time they had to remember back to the previous night.

[Abby Normal]

Regarding the peaked cap -- it makes sense it was not a sailor because the witnesses would have said sailor cap.

A newsboy cap has the advantage that it can easily be pulled down in front to give partial coverage to the face. So, that's something.

I should have verified the witness descriptions -- I'm new, good to see it's a tough board. I will need to bone up.

Hi Alicia and welcome
You dont have to bone up on anything, all the witneses describe a man wearing a peaked cap and/or something a sailor would wear. The previous poster was in err-schwartz described the man wearing a "cap with peak", (not a wide brimmed hat as damaso claimed).

And I pretty much agree to evrything you said in your first response-and note your valid analogy to here in the states about blaming the black man. only in the rippers case he was blaming the usual scapegoat at the time-the Jew. Unfortunately.

again welcome!

[Abby Normal]

I completely agree with you. So much is lost in speculative articles that one needs to return to the original descriptions of the crimes.

I also got the idea that Liz Stride was not actively soliciting that night. If anything, she was described as cheerful when she left her lodgings - like she had a date.

However, despite many claiming Stride was not a Ripper victim, one can't overlook the fact she was found on the ground, face up, with her throat slit. She also had her legs bent up (making an angle over the ground), which was the way the Ripper got close to the lower abdomen to begin his mutilations. (He would part the legs and kneel in front of the torso.) He was most certainly interrupted.

In addition, there was a man in a peaked cap seen with Mary Kelly as well.

Yes - peaked cap man was definitely Ripper in my opinion and several persons got a good look at him that night.

Hi again Alicia
Just a minor point: I do not not beleive Mary Kelly was ever described as being seen with a man in a peaked cap. I could be wrong though so if you could refresh my memory with source/details it would be appreciated.


Also, after being seen the night of the double event by so many witnesses who described him as wearing the peaked cap, Im sure the ripper would not wear it in public again, especially when he was out hunting for his next victim!
unless of course it was chapman who kept it and was wearing it in that photo. ; )

[curious4]

Newspapers

My understanding is that "peaked cap" refers to what we in America would call a "newsboy cap" today:

http://www.villagehatshop.com/photos/product/giant/4511390S91577/newsboy-caps/english-tweed-newsboy-cap.jpg

This is certainly not what Schwartz described, he described a man wearing a wide brimmed hat. And James Brown described a man in a long coat, not a short one.

I believe the man Smith saw is widely believed to be a member of the club, hence why he had a parcel, the parcel containing newspapers he was distributing.

Finally, let me say a few more things about the 12:30 PC Smith sighting and what it does or does not mean for Stride being a Ripper victim:

(1) We cannot rule out the fact that the Ripper spent a lengthy amount of time with his victims prior to killing them. We don't know what Nichols, Chapman, or Kelly were doing with any great certainty or precision for hours before their deaths. Eddowes has the "missing time" issue as well. Given that the ripper, if he was soliciting prostitutes, knew he would get his money back after the murder, he might have hired them for several hours to chat with before disposing of.

(2) It is not "either interrupted murder OR not a ripper victim". It is possible for Stride to be a ripper victim and the reason she was not mutilated was because he did not want to mutilate her. Perhaps the double event was pre-meditated and he wanted to multilate only the second one. Perhaps he had some kind of ritual he did before mutilation and something about Stride screwed it up. Who knows.

Hallo Damaso,

I believe the idea that the man Smith saw was carrying newspapers is fairly recent. What the man was carrying was described as a newspaper parcel, that is a parcel wrapped in newspaper. I have seen news vendors carrying newspapers, not wrapped up, but carried over the arm, with the middle o of the paper over the arm, seemingly to keep the newspapers from creasing. I don't ever recall seeing newspapers wrapped up in newspaper. Tied up with string, yes, but I can't see PC Smith mistaking a pile of newspapers for a parcel wrapped in newspaper.

Best wishes,
C4

[Wickerman]

close enough and you know it, epecially since it is obvious that the person would be estimating a time they had to remember back to the previous night.

Too close to Berner St. considering a half hour has passed since Stride was murdered. The streets were alive with coppers by then.

Too far from Mitre Sq considering fifteen minutes later Eddowes is found there murdered.

If I recall correctly most theorists that have considered the Church Lane man have rejected him for those reasons.

P.S.
Peaked caps (what type?) came in a wide variety, but were extremely common among the poor.

[Wickerman]

I don't ever recall seeing newspapers wrapped up in newspaper. Tied up with string, yes, but I can't see PC Smith mistaking a pile of newspapers for a parcel wrapped in newspaper.

A distinction that has been lost among a handful of theorists, good that you raise it in a clear and understandable fashion.

[GUT]

G'Day C4

I believe the idea that the man Smith saw was carrying newspapers is fairly recent. What the man was carrying was described as a newspaper parcel, that is a parcel wrapped in newspaper. I have seen news vendors carrying newspapers, not wrapped up, but carried over the arm, with the middle o of the paper over the arm, seemingly to keep the newspapers from creasing. I don't ever recall seeing newspapers wrapped up in newspaper. Tied up with string, yes, but I can't see PC Smith mistaking a pile of newspapers for a parcel wrapped in newspaper.

But I have often seen advertising flyers wrapped in paper. Just as today you rarely see fish and chips wrapped in newspaper it used to be the only way to wrap them because it was freely available, so I would not be at all surprised to see some type of promotional or advertising brochure/flyer wrapped in Newspaper.

[GUT]

May I add that in the 60's it was common for the bundle of newspapers to be delivered to the newsagent wrapped in newspaper and then tied with wire,

[Wickerman]

May I add that in the 60's it was common for the bundle of newspapers to be delivered to the newsagent wrapped in newspaper and then tied with wire,

Back in the 60's in UK, bundles of newspapers (for delivery) were not wrapped, just tied up with string.

[GUT]

G'Day Jon

Normally they used to arrive at our shop tied with wire, and the bundles were about 12-18" high. But when you got small numbers of a paper, maybe one to ten of say an inter state paper they would be first wrapped in a layer of newspaper.

[GUT]

I think however that in all reality all we actually know was that it was reported to be a newspaper parcel, whatever that means.

It could have been flyers wrapped to protect them from light rain, it could have been a knife or some nice organs he had just harvested, or it could have been a nice fish and chip supper.

Gee I haven't had a nice feed of fish and chips, drowned in vinegar for a while.

[Roy Corduroy]

... having established that it is more than likely that Schwartz saw the ripper and the ripper yelled an anti Semitic insult to him (lipski), one could also draw the conclusion that therefore the ripper was probably a gentile ...

Except that 'Lipski' was used as a insult by one Jewish man to another. In this neighborhood at that time as shown here -

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3260

[curious4]

Newspaper

I think however that in all reality all we actually know was that it was reported to be a newspaper parcel, whatever that means.

It could have been flyers wrapped to protect them from light rain, it could have been a knife or some nice organs he had just harvested, or it could have been a nice fish and chip supper.

Gee I haven't had a nice feed of fish and chips, drowned in vinegar for a while.

Hello Wickerman,

Thank you.

Hello GUT,

"The Workers' Friend" seems to have been an ordinary newspaper, not a flyer. It came out either monthly or weekly - think I'll go with weekly - and was published on fridays. (My conclusion, going by
two translations so generously published by LC. Both editions, 14th Dec and 5th Oct, came out on a friday.) So carrying a bundle of newspapers in the early morning on a sunday seems unlikely - certainly not hot off the press, anyway. Although it is possible, of course. Still not likely to be mistaken for a parcel, I think.

Enough about fish and chips! I am drooling!

Best wishes,
C4