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  • #16
    Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
    This is from the Daly Telegraph, Oct 6 1888 and has a number of items of interest including "a staring look" and a description of a felt deerstalker hat :

    It is a remarkable circumstance - much more than an ordinary coincidence - that the description of the supposed murderer given by Packer, was yesterday confirmed by another man who, without being aware of the fact, also chose from the sketches the one which had been already selected by Packer. Search for an individual answering to the description above detailed, but having a small moustache and wearing a black deerstalker felt hat, instead of a soft one, has been made by the police in Whitechapel ever since Saturday, Sept. 1, the day following the Buck's-row tragedy. Information was tendered at the King David's-lane Police Station, at about that time, by a dairyman who has a place of business in Little Turner-street, Commercial-road. It will be recollected that on Saturday, Sept. 1, a desperate assault was reported to have been committed near to the music-hall in Cambridge-heath-road, a man having seized a woman by the throat and dragged her down a court, where he was joined by a gang, one of whom laid a knife across the woman's throat, remarking "we will serve you as we did the others." The particulars of this affair were subsequently stated to be untrue; but the milkman has reason to suppose that the outrage was actually perpetrated, and he suspects that the murderer of Mary Ann Nicholls in Buck's-row had something to do with it. At any rate, upon that Saturday night, at five minutes to eleven o'clock, a man corresponding with the description given by Packer of the individual who purchased the grapes in Berner-street, called at the shop, which is on the left of a covered yard, usually occupied by barrows, which are let out on hire. He was in a hurry, and he asked for a pennyworth of milk, with which he was served, and he drank it down at a gulp. Asking permission to go into the yard or shed, he went there, but the dairyman caught a glimpse of something white, and, having suspicions, he rejoined the man in the shed, and was surprised to observe that he had covered up his trousers with a pair of white over-alls, such as engineers wear. The man had a staring look, and appeared greatly agitated. He made a movement forward, and the brim of his hard felt hat struck the dairyman, who is therefore sure of the kind that he was wearing. In a hurried manner the stranger took out of a black shiny bag, which was on the ground, a white jacket and rapidly put it on, completely hiding his cutaway black coat, remarking meanwhile, "It's a dreadful murder, isn't it?" although the subject had not been previously mentioned. Without making a pause the suspicious person caught up his bag, which was still open, and rushed into the street, towards Shadwell, saying, "I think I've got a clue!" The matter was reported to the police, and although strict watch has been maintained for the reappearance of the man he has not been seen in the street since. He is said to have had a dark complexion, such as a seafaring man acquires. The style of collar that he was then wearing was of the turn-down pattern. He had no marked American accent, and his general appearance was that of a clerk or student whose beard had been allowed three days' growth. His hair was dark, and his eyes large and staring. The portrait gives, according to the statement of the witness, a good approximate idea of his look. The bag carried by the young man, whose age the dairyman places at twenty-eight, is stated to have been provided with a lock at the top, near the handle, and was made, as stated, of a black glistening material.

    Cheers, George
    What a brilliant find and absolutely warrants discussion on the subject matter of this thread.

    This description sounds familiar.


    RD
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

    Comment


    • #17
      The "Face" etched onto the walking stick resembles the sketch of Bowyer... or "Indian Harry"



      RD
      "Great minds, don't think alike"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

        Barnardo is one of my top suspects and I have another ongoing thread regarding him.
        Oh, so you do! Dr B - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

        While I don't rate Dr B as a suspect, I think he is person of some interest.
        You might be interested in this very speculative post of mine.

        He did indeed have very "weak eyes" and when you look at photos of him it does seem particularly apparent.
        Click image for larger version  Name:	Barnardo.jpg Views:	0 Size:	9.3 KB ID:	817511
        Last edited by NotBlamedForNothing; 09-02-2023, 01:32 AM.
        Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

          Oh, so you do! Dr B - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

          While I don't rate Dr B as a suspect, I think he is person of some interest.
          You might be interested in this very speculative post of mine.



          Click image for larger version Name:	Barnardo.jpg Views:	0 Size:	9.3 KB ID:	817511
          Typically, the photo you uploaded doesn't back up my statement, but there is a photo of Barnardo sitting at his desk facing the camera directly. In that photo, his eyes look weak but not unusual. More a case of him having light eyelashes and eyebrows, compared to the darkness of his mustache and hair.


          If you get a chance to look at that photo of him in his office looking directly forward at the camera, please take a look at the top left-hand corner (behind Barnardos right shoulder) and see whether the framed painting of what appears to be 3 women in some distress, looks out of place in his office.


          In terms of his eyes though, I concede that the photo you shared doesn't indicate any issue with his eyes.


          RD
          "Great minds, don't think alike"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

            Typically, the photo you uploaded doesn't back up my statement, but there is a photo of Barnardo sitting at his desk facing the camera directly.
            Upload the photo you're referring to. The photo in #18 matches Best's "He had a thick black moustache and no beard."
            Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

            Comment


            • #21
              This guy was said to have strange piercing eyes:

              Click image for larger version

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              He was Francis Thompson.

              Cheers, George
              The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

              ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                Upload the photo you're referring to. The photo in #18 matches Best's "He had a thick black moustache and no beard."
                Click image for larger version  Name:	dr-barnardo-office_orig.jpg Views:	0 Size:	152.8 KB ID:	817530


                Distinctive Dark Mustache turned up at the ends
                No Beard
                Dark Hair
                Weak Eyes
                RIGHT Handed
                Unusual painting in top left

                Looks like thousands of other men at the time, the only difference being that we know he spoke to Stride on Wednesday night at 32 Flower and Dean Street
                ...And then after her murder, he went to the mortuary to see her and confirm Stride was in the kitchen at the time.

                The newspaper at the time reported his talking to the women at the lodging house as..


                "Pathetic"

                I will try and find the report but you really get a sense that he believed he was everyone's savior and he had such an arrogant sense of self worth that the journalist of the paper really didn't like him.

                He actively encouraged groups of boys/young men to be violent, aptly named "Barnardo's Boys"

                He also kept children at his homes against the will of their parents

                And confessed in court to "abduction"

                And yet he walked free no fewer than 88 times.

                Becoming a Freemason in late 1889 helped to secure his status among the powerful male-only elite, which also consisted of Warren, Swanson, and Baxter to name but a few.

                In other words, even if he was the ripper, the brotherhood was obliged by the terms of their secret order to protect each other.


                But that's got absolutely nothing to do with this thread...


                Back to the subject matter of this thread..

                In terms of his "Eyes"..in this photo they look small, and weak in relation to his other features and so they actually do the opposite of standing out, and his eyes look somewhat lost.



                RD
                Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 09-02-2023, 07:10 AM.
                "Great minds, don't think alike"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hello all,

                  staring eyes, shiny blag bags and freemasons?

                  I don't think this is a good route to take, there are just too many variations of weak/staring/squinting/etc. eyes and not enough data, except for a few witness statements and some press articles which may or may not be reliable.

                  Grüße,

                  Boris
                  ~ All perils, specially malignant, are recurrent - Thomas De Quincey ~

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bolo View Post
                    Hello all,

                    staring eyes, shiny blag bags and freemasons?

                    I don't think this is a good route to take, there are just too many variations of weak/staring/squinting/etc. eyes and not enough data, except for a few witness statements and some press articles which may or may not be reliable.

                    Grüße,

                    Boris
                    I agree, the Freemason angle is not worth pursuing because it bears no relevance to the murders themselves, other than if the killer was a freemason, then he would have been protected by the order. That's a fact, but not applicable to this case I feel.

                    But the EYES path...now I think that IS worth looking at... excusing the pun


                    RD
                    "Great minds, don't think alike"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Could the killer have a condition called... Heterochromia?

                      A condition that results in atypical eye coloration and is a distinguishing feature for those who have it.

                      It's a harmless benign genetic abnormality but could explain why MULTIPLE witnesses mention the EYES.

                      David Bowie had Heterochromia and his eyes were mesmerizing and characteristic.


                      RD
                      "Great minds, don't think alike"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
                        But the EYES path...now I think that IS worth looking at... excusing the pun
                        as far as I can tell, the available source material does not provide enough information about this, there are some witness statements and press articles but I wouldn't consider them relevant. Having 'evil' eyes is something people would have expected from a murderer and this is still the case today, many people believe that character and personality of a person get reflected in the eyes. Of course there is no scientific or criminological foundation for it.
                        ~ All perils, specially malignant, are recurrent - Thomas De Quincey ~

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bolo View Post

                          as far as I can tell, the available source material does not provide enough information about this, there are some witness statements and press articles but I wouldn't consider them relevant. Having 'evil' eyes is something people would have expected from a murderer and this is still the case today, many people believe that character and personality of a person get reflected in the eyes. Of course there is no scientific or criminological foundation for it.
                          I like your post and concur with your views, but it's not quite the point I was trying to make.

                          My point isn't whether the killer would/could have had "evil" eyes...

                          ... it has rather to do with the fact that multiple witnesses made in their respective statements specific comments about the potential suspects eyes being either odd, unusual, peculiar, standing out, being weak, beady etc...

                          In other words, I'm not claiming the killer had evil eyes or that he should have had evil eyes, I am instead taking the evidence from multiple witnesses who referred to the eyes specifically...and to me, that warrants further investigation.

                          In November 1892 Emily Smith was attacked by a man whose eyes were "...odd and light, almost to squinting, one a lightish brown, the other a bluey grey"

                          Her story is absolutely worth looking at in more detail, because she spent time some time with this man before he attacked her after she wouldn't walk down a narrow alleyway running along the train line on station place (now shadwell place)

                          When she refused, he said in a QUIET voice "I will settle you now then!"

                          He dragged her towards the wall and TRIED to spin her around to get behind her so that she faced away from him. (similar perhaps to the way Stride was moved around before she was thrown to the floor)
                          ...but on seeing him having drawn a large knife (she didn't know how or where he drew his knife from) she quickly raised her knee hard and fast into his groin which sent him reeling. He then lunged at her with his knife, but she managed to dodge him and then ran screaming back into Sutton Road. The assailant fled and disappeared into the thick fog that night.

                          Bearing in mind that the man also...

                          Resembled other descriptions
                          Commented on the previous victims of JTR as being "old women" who were "better off out the way"
                          He also gestured to Leman Street as they passed the junction with Commercial Road traveling east and said "That's where Jack the Ripper is best known"
                          He also took her to a coffee house and mentioned he didn't drink alcohol.

                          The coffee shop link may also be relevant; rather ironically, the policeman who missed Frances Coles being murdered by just a few seconds (PC Ernest Thompson) was murdered outside a coffee house after trying to move on a man (and others) who were causing a disturbance.

                          But going back to the man who attacked Emily Smith - he had also lured Emily to the exact location where Maria Harvey had lived for years prior to her moving to 3 New Court in Dorset Street. And we already know the link between Maria Harvey and MJK.

                          If JTR did live in or around Leman Street, then that also may provide another clue.

                          What's interesting here is that the man who attacked Emily had met her hours before by approaching her in Cheapside and he subsequently took his time before choosing to attack her.
                          His knife was concealed the whole time and his intent was to kill her.
                          The key difference with this attack being that Emily wasn't a prostitute and was only 18 at the time of her attack.

                          But i digress...

                          The point is that THIS man had eyes that Emily Smith noticed specifically as being atypical and that is important to acknowledge when you consider previous witnesses saying similar and providing similar descriptions of a suspect.

                          We can either choose to dismiss everything and stay dormant in our endeavors, or we can look to be progressive and look for other connections that are there just waiting to be found.

                          One thing I am certain of...we are all missing something and over time we will get there as a collective.



                          RD



                          Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 09-02-2023, 01:59 PM.
                          "Great minds, don't think alike"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post


                            Distinctive Dark Mustache turned up at the ends
                            No Beard
                            Dark Hair
                            Weak Eyes
                            RIGHT Handed
                            Unusual painting in top left...
                            It's difficult though when maybe 90% of middle aged men wore a moustache, with or w/o a beard and had dark hair.
                            I don't see 'weak eyes' in his case, being right handed was in keeping with the majority.
                            Schooling was geared towards right-handed students.

                            Did he have a limp?


                            Regards, Jon S.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

                              David Bowie had Heterochromia RD
                              'Fraid not. Bowie had anisocoria (a permanently dilated pupil) following traumatic injury.

                              But if we are obsessing about weird eyes, how about...


                              Click image for larger version  Name:	317094178_5864881273554684_4934106600663325897_n.jpg Views:	0 Size:	77.2 KB ID:	817570


                              We'll overlook the blotches for the time being...

                              M.​
                              Last edited by Mark J D; 09-02-2023, 05:09 PM.
                              (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

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                              • #30
                                Perfectly normal eyes.
                                Regards

                                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

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