our killer been local

[The Good Michael]

...and we don't know for sure that the heart was missing from the room. It was "absent". That could just mean absent from the body like a lot of other stuff. Bond's report is unclear on that. I think it was gone completely, but it doesn't say that specifically.
Mike

[richardnunweek]

Hi Caz,
You ask the question,Why not ambush her done a dark alley?
Lets say it is my belief, that he was after something personal to him , that may have been in Kelly's procession.
In order to retrieve, he had to be sure that he was at least once in her room, just killing her in a dark place, [which would have been easier said then done,] would not assure that .
If McCarthy's tale was true , then it is clear that the visitor to the court was intent on paying Kelly a visit, and was not content to just wait for her in the street.
Again I make reference to Fiona's tale, and her being adamant, that not only did her great - grandfather believe he knew the identity of her killer, but the motive also, which would leave my speculative mind with the view that he believed the visitor who he sent packing was her killer.
But its all oral history which is unreliable , but if true, we have at least a suspect, albeit unknown.
Regards Richard.

[Tom_Wescott]

...and we don't know for sure that the heart was missing from the room. It was "absent". That could just mean absent from the body like a lot of other stuff. Bond's report is unclear on that. I think it was gone completely, but it doesn't say that specifically.
Mike

Not really. I know some writers have written that, but they didn't have their thinking cap on. Many parts of the body were separated from the body or taken out of the body and were listed by Dr. Bond. Only the heart was listed as 'absent', meaning they couldn't find it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

If McCarthy's tale was true , then it is clear that the visitor to the court was intent on paying Kelly a visit, and was not content to just wait for her in the street.
Again I make reference to Fiona's tale, and her being adamant, that not only did her great - grandfather believe he knew the identity of her killer, but the motive also, which would leave my speculative mind with the view that he believed the visitor who he sent packing was her killer.

Hi Richard. Are you referring to Fiona Rule? Who was her GGF? And what tale of McCarthy's are you referring to? If this is discussed on a thread somewhere I'd greatly appreciate being pointed in that direction.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hello Tom,
The Fiona in question is Fiona Kendall lane, great grand daughter of McCarthy Kelly's landlord.
I appreciate that many on Casebook refrain from oral history, but the tale of McCarthy sending a man on his way, when they attempted to visit Mary Kelly I find fascinating, for several reasons.
The person concerned obviously made a bit of a commotion , for the landlord to intervene , and clearly came across as a person with a grudge , making it clear that Kelly stole something from him , which he wanted returned.
I also suggest, that if this account holds any credence, it may be significant why the killer chose to kill in Kelly's room, for the only way he would have been able to possibly get back his item would be access to room 13.
McCarthy[ according to family tradition] always maintained he knew who the killer was , and his motive.. which could suggest he believed the stranger may have been responsible.
Regards Richard.

[curious4]

Visitor

Hello Richard,

If whoever this was behaved in such an aggressive manner, and knew Mary, why would she be anywhere near him, let alone invite him into her room? Her door did lock on the inside.

Best wishes,
C4

[richardnunweek]

Hi Curious.
I think we can safely say that Mary's Killer behaved in a aggressive manner. but we have no idea if he had behaved aggressive to Mary in her relationship with him previous.
He may well have come across as well I was angry but now I am not , its nice seeing you again .
Indeed he may well have been Hutchinson's A man, Kelly's attitude towards him showed no fear, she obviously was not too worried in taking him back to her room, regardless of who it was..
Regards Richard.

[curious4]

Aggressive

Hello Richard,

Yes, you could be right or I suppose Mary, like many a woman before and since, knew him to be violent but thought she could handle him.

Best wishes,
C4

[Errata]

Hello Richard,

Yes, you could be right or I suppose Mary, like many a woman before and since, knew him to be violent but thought she could handle him.

Best wishes,
C4

Or he was more a stalker type, and she didn't know him except perhaps to nod at him occasionally. Just because he had a relationship with her doesn't mean she had one with him.

[caz]

Throughout history one of the major causes of overkill whether it be a single murder, a judicial murder, or one in a series of murders has been betrayal...

...What he does to Kelly is essentially a very bloody temper tantrum...

...serial killers clearly do occasionally make it personal. And when they do, you see spectacular and revolting overkill. So you can have a serial killer with some bizarre clinical harvest who suddenly wigs out and essentially puts a girl through a blender because it's personal. He has been betrayed by her.

Hi Errata,

Interesting, because another case of overkill is Tabram's murder. What her killer does to her could arguably be described as a very bloody temper tantrum. But I think in this case he merely takes something she says or does 'personally' and takes it out on her female body, including the targeting of her genital area. I imagine he is probably quite a volatile chap where the ladies are concerned.

So something in the water down Whitechapel way?

Unfortunates betraying their menfolk, right, left and centre?

Or just one serial killer who keeps getting himself into situations with prostitutes (or presumed prostitutes for the squeamish) where he can get all knife happy?

Deeply personal for him - but that doesn't mean he needs to have met a single victim before, although he could have done.

Love,

Caz
X

[curious4]

Stalker

Hello Errata

Yes, doesn't Bob Hinton go down that road? Had me looking under my bed for weeks after I read his book. More in hope than anything I suspect!

Best wishes,
C4