Jack The Ripper solved?

[Tom_Wescott]

Just downloaded the new Begg and Bennett. Christer will be pleased that he's mentioned in there and Cross is briefly discussed as a suspect, behind Le Grand, of course.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Lechmere]

The reason why possibly having blood on his hand wouldn't have been a problem is that Lechmere got Paul to touch the body so providing a valid reason, or excuse, for blood transfers.
Also he could have wiped his hands on Nichols' garments before turning to face Paul.
In any case who is to say that any killer got bloody hands?
One way or another the touching on the shoulder is of no significance in diminishing the Lechmere theory.

There have been four books on Hutchinson - there is a massive amount more than can be said about these crimes and Lechmere's relationship to them than can be said about Hutchinson.

[Mr Lucky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not so sure that Osourne and Connor were as convinced as Fish and Ed. They were more intrigued by the possibility. As was I. I dare say most of us considered it long before there was a Fish and Ed. But now that the possibility has been explored to its fullest, surely the notion of Cross as Ripper has become an improbability?

Hi Tom

Frankly, I felt the same about the original theory, as now promoted by Fish and Ed so I gave up with it. And there are some problems with the standard version of what happened on Buck's-row that aren't resolved by Cross becoming the standard version of the killer.

Jon's observation about Cross having touched Paul with his apparently bloodless hand was spot on.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I gave up with it, - but now in my version he hasn't any blood on his hands yet.

[Tom_Wescott]

That's why it's not such a bad theory as far as Ripperology goes. It's not a single person's take. Osbourne, Conner, and then Pete (Mr. Lucky) and Ed and Christer have all come to similar (and independent?) conclusions about Lechmere, albeit the specific details vary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not so sure that Osourne and Connor were as convinced as Fish and Ed. They were more intrigued by the possibility. As was I. I dare say most of us considered it long before there was a Fish and Ed. But now that the possibility has been explored to its fullest, surely the notion of Cross as Ripper has become an improbability?

Jon's observation about Cross having touched Paul with his apparently bloodless hand was spot on.

So Lechmere's writing a book? Is there enough material on Cross and this theory to warrant a book? A 15 page Rip essay, perhaps...but a book?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Ah, all but a handful.

So residents in Bucks Row were interviewed, as was indeed pointed out in our last exchange on the matter.

Monty

[Lechmere]

Watch it Scott - you aren't supposed to say that.

Monty
The police where specifically taken to task by the Coroner for neglecting to interview all but a handful of residents in Bucks Row. I am sure I have had this conversation with you before.

[Scott Nelson]

That's why it's not such a bad theory as far as Ripperology goes. It's not a single person's take. Osbourne, Conner, and then Pete (Mr. Lucky) and Ed and Christer have all come to similar (and independent?) conclusions about Lechmere, albeit the specific details vary.

[Lechmere]

In all the canonical and non canonical Whitechapel Murders, how many other people (witnesses or suspects call them what you will) were seen by someone else, standing very close to a murdered body prior to that person raising the alarm?
None.

[Fisherman]

30/40 yards is about 30 seconds away, Christer. Somehwere in that ballpark.

Paul didn`t see Cross crouching, wiping his hands, stashing anything away, moving away from the body, he was just standing in the middle of the road, as Cross tells us.

I wouldnīt know about the 30 sec ballpark (Paul was in a hurry) - but I would not care much either.

And yes, of course Paul did not see Lechmere swinging intestines in the air - if he had, we would never have heard of Jack the Ripper, but instead we would have a forgotten crime committed by some Lechmere guy that swinged for what he did.

Lechmereīs ruse would have entailed loking inconspicious. It would have been vital for him not to do any intestine-swinging. He made an effort to con Paul, if Iīm correct (I must ALWAYS remember to add that!), and his best chance of succeeding involved getting away from the victim and ensuring Paul that he had arrived almost at the same time as Lechmere.

But once again, Jon - who says that Pauol was close on Lechmereīs tail? Who is the man guaranteeing this? On who must we rely to make it work ā la Lechmere?

And why, oh why, do we not have Paul saying "I could hear a man walking in front of me down Buckīs Row, and then I heard the steps die down in the darkness. A few seconds later I saw this man standing in the street ..."

Why is it that he says nothing at all of being aware of that other man until he sees him a few feet from the victim, standing in the middle of the street?

And thatīs just one of the elements in the ever growing pile of anomalies attaching to Lechmere.

We cannot use Paul to confirm that the two were just seconds apart. We have only Lechmereīs word for this - and what we have on Paul (the lacking sound of steps in front of him) speak against Lechmereīs version. The street was empty and silent. It therefore seems to me that Lechmere was positioned down at Browns stable yard all the time after Paul turned into the street.

Lastly - if I may: Many, many thanks for debating this soundly and justly. You set an example for others to follow.

Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Who says they were about 30 seconds apart, Jon? We are speaking of Paulīs testimony now, and he had no clue about how far apart they were. The only guy trying to establish the space of time inbetween them was Lechmere.

And he could have arrived in the street ten minutes earlier for all we know. Paul did not notice him until he saw him out in the street.

By the way, what was suggested was not 30 seconds, it was 30-40 yards, methinks. Lechmere only noticed Paul as he was 30-40 yards away.

Or so he said.

30/40 yards is about 30 seconds away, Christer. Somehwere in that ballpark.

Paul didn`t see Cross crouching, wiping his hands, stashing anything away, moving away from the body, he was just standing in the middle of the road, as Cross tells us.

[Fisherman]

No, they were about 30 seconds apart.
But Paul`s statement corresponds with Cross`s.

Who says they were about 30 seconds apart, Jon? We are speaking of Paulīs testimony now, and he had no clue about how far apart they were. The only guy trying to establish the space of time inbetween them was Lechmere.

And he could have arrived in the street ten minutes earlier for all we know. Paul did not notice him until he saw him out in the street.

By the way, what was suggested was not 30 seconds, it was 30-40 yards, methinks. Lechmere only noticed Paul as he was 30-40 yards away.

Or so he said.

Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Yep. And does he say they arrived at the body together?

No, they were about 30 seconds apart.
But Paul`s statement corresponds with Cross`s.

[Rob Clack]

Rob
I might lend you a copy.
I’ve heard about your book reviews.

Always fair and honest.

Iīm glad I made it easier for you.

Then again, you have already "summed me up" lots of times, havenīt you?

Not to worry, though - Iīve got you sorted too.

Fisherman

I'm not difficult to work out.

Rob

[Monty]

Yeah, it should not be much of a fight really. Canīt believe they lost, but there you are.

Didnīt even bother to check out a man found by a murder victim, did they? Good going!

Boys in blue, my XXX.

Fisherman

And your proof is....?

Oh wait, you don't need proof do you?

Monty

[Fisherman]

Exactly Steve,

The boys in blue who were there at the time vrs an ill informed hack from Sweden who is 125 years too late?

Monty

Yeah, it should not be much of a fight really. Canīt believe they lost, but there you are.

Didnīt even bother to check out a man found by a murder victim, did they? Good going!

Boys in blue, my XXX.

Fisherman