Lechmere versus Richardson.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes, it is. And no-one would even be suggesting it now were there not a (sociologically and psychologically fascinating) determination to, first, grant the police the kind of imaginary omniscience they possess in the fantasies of a childishly servile public, and, secondly, to get Lechmere off the table at any cost.

M.

A post that speaks volumes about the poster I think. The ‘public’ (me) are ‘childishly servile’ whilst the intelligent, anti-establishment thinkers (you) just aren’t taken in. And of course it’s never the people with the theory who are biased is it? It’s always those that doubt. Despite the low manipulations that have gone on on these Lechmere threads in a transparently desperate attempt to shoehorn a witness into the killers shoes you still manage to place yourself on a high horse.

I have never suggested that the police are now, or have ever been, omniscient or anything close to it. But I also don’t believe that they are all Clouseau-like incompetents or moustache-twiddling Victorian villains. If it’s come to the stage where we’ve descended to criticising and mocking purely for the suggestion that the Police might have looked closer at Lechmere than we are aware of (due to the lack of records) then we have come close to the bottom of the barrel. They weren’t geniuses or idiots. They were men desperate to catch a killer and yet you assume that they wouldn’t have done their jobs with anything approaching diligence.

”To get Lechmere off the table at all costs” is a bit of a joke. I haven’t said that he should be off any table but what I have said is that there has been a colossal amount of exaggeration and manipulation to try and make him and his actions appear vastly more suspicious than they were when in actual fact nothing that Lechmere did on that night comes close to being suspicious and perfectly in line with a man discovering a body on his way to work yet you have people claiming he’s somehow the best suspect?

We’ve had a thoroughly invented gap of time (no wonder Scobie was impressed with Lech) we’ve had posters saying things like “about 3.30 could only have meant 3.30 or 3.31,” or that Baxter must have meant no more than a minute before 3.45. We’ve found that it’s apparently perfectly acceptable to suggest that Paul interrupted Lechmere but it’s a fantasy to suggest that Lechmere might have interrupted the real killer a minute or so earlier. We have an alleged killer 15 minutes from getting to work deciding to stop off and butcher a passing prostitute then loitering around so that he can show the body to a passerby, then go looking for a policeman hoping against hope that he wouldn’t detain him or take him back to the scene because there’s no way that he can lie about her being drunk because he has the other bloke standing next him. He then turns up to the Inquest but uses his Stepfathers surname but his own forenames and gives his address and place of work. But his aunty Nelly used to live near Mitre Square so he must be guilty. It’s way was getting real time.

John Richardson is a better suspect than Charles Lechmere because we don’t need to make things up.

[MrBarnett]

It has to be said, of all the many suspects there was only one man at the scene of a C5 murder, at exactly the right time, with the bloody knife in his hand.

And that man was Richardson.
I always thought that was dodgy im glad other people think so too.

‘Bloody’? That’s certainly dodgy.

It has to be said, of all the many suspects there was only one man at the scene of a C5 murder, at exactly the right time, with the bloody knife in his hand.

And that man was Richardson.
I always thought that was dodgy im glad other people think so too.

[Mark J D]

Carions Tooth: an abscessed tooth.

Psst! 'Carious'.

You're welcome.

M.

[Mark J D]

So is it a stretch of the imagination...

Yes, it is. And no-one would even be suggesting it now were there not a (sociologically and psychologically fascinating) determination to, first, grant the police the kind of imaginary omniscience they possess in the fantasies of a childishly servile public, and, secondly, to get Lechmere off the table at any cost.

M.

[MrBarnett]

Another interesting angle to the theoretical case against Richardson...

When trawling through the Lechmere threads, one sees Maria Lechmere being characterized as a demanding, controlling woman who taught her son to despise the 'fallen women' of St. George in the East. In reality, we really know nothing about her personality or attitudes--it is sheer guesswork.

But might not this characterization of a controlling, fanatical woman be better applied to John Richardson's mother, Amelia?

It was John Richardson's mother, after all, who made a great show of “kissing the book” at the Chapman inquest. No other witness called to give evidence is reported to have acted with such piety. The ELO also made a point of mentioning that Mrs. Richardson was better dressed and better behaved than her East End counterparts.

And it was also Richardson's mother who held what must have been very tedious prayer meetings on Friday nights. Is there any doubt she must have been a stern teetotaler?

It must have been a living hell for young man like John, who had enjoyed a free roving spirit when he joined the militia at an early age (to get away from his mother?) and who must have many times enjoyed the women and the drink of the garrison towns.

Yet, back in the East End it was always: "Wipe your feet, John. Don't forget the prayer meeting tonight, John. Remember to pray to Jesus, John. Get up early and check my locks tomorrow, John. Stay away from those scarlet women, John."

How Richardson must have felt about this pious old fanatic can be judged by Amelia Richardson's ultimate fate. By the turn of the Century, Richardson and his wife are living comfortably, but his meddlesome mother Amelia has been left homeless in the dirty streets of Whitechapel--left to fend for herself.

Imagine, what she must have suffered: the workhouse infirmary records list her as having abscessed teeth, rheumatism, and bronchitis, and she ultimately died alone and scorned in the workhouse.

What a sad fate for this prime & proper woman who once held prayer meetings in these same slums!



Carions Tooth: an abscessed tooth. Homeless: What misery must hide in that single word.

To have abandoned her like that, John Richardson must have hated the old girl with a passion.

Another reference to her homelessness, this time with rheumatism and bronchitis.

Fascinating stuff, RJ. Tell me, just how ‘comfortable’ was John Richardson at the turn of the century?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I never cease to be amazed at the way white anglophone attitudes to the police manifest all the irrational characteristics of a religion multiplied by an addiction. However much contradictory evidence is available about what the police are and always were, the fundamental faith is never impacted, and the craving comes back worse than before: they're sensible, honest, competent, law-upholding, fair-minded, dedicated, not at all the racist, misogynist boot-boys of private wealth and the violent state, and they definitely, definitely, definitely would have used hundreds of hours of scarce manpower to check out a white Christian working man with a respectable job at a big company...

Now, if the year had been 1988 and Lechmere had been black...

M.

We can’t make any assumptions about the Police or individual police officers in the absence of significant information. Yes we can’t assume that they would have shown Holmes-like brilliance but we also can’t assume idiocy or corruption because it helps a theory. So I can’t see an issue for example in suggesting that they might have known more than we know considering the absence of records? The police did look into things. This was a high profile case. They were getting criticised and ridiculed as the murders progressed. So is it a stretch of the imagination to even suggest that they might have looked into various aspects of the case further than we know? That alibi’s might have been checked? Or even that senior officers might have looked back over previous murders, desperate to catch the culprit, and considered people worthy of a second look? How dumb would they have been not even to have considered a man who spent time alone with the body?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Another interesting angle to the theoretical case against Richardson...

When trawling through the Lechmere threads, one sees Maria Lechmere being characterized as a demanding, controlling woman who taught her son to despise the 'fallen women' of St. George in the East. In reality, we really know nothing about her personality or attitudes--it is sheer guesswork.

But might not this characterization of a controlling, fanatical woman be better applied to John Richardson's mother, Amelia?

It was John Richardson's mother, after all, who made a great show of “kissing the book” at the Chapman inquest. No other witness called to give evidence is reported to have acted with such piety. The ELO also made a point of mentioning that Mrs. Richardson was better dressed and better behaved than her East End counterparts.

And it was also Richardson's mother who held what must have been very tedious prayer meetings on Friday nights. Is there any doubt she must have been a stern teetotaler?

It must have been a living hell for young man like John, who had enjoyed a free roving spirit when he joined the militia at an early age (to get away from his mother?) and who must have many times enjoyed the women and the drink of the garrison towns.

Yet, back in the East End it was always: "Wipe your feet, John. Don't forget the prayer meeting tonight, John. Remember to pray to Jesus, John. Get up early and check my locks tomorrow, John. Stay away from those scarlet women, John."

How Richardson must have felt about this pious old fanatic can be judged by Amelia Richardson's ultimate fate. By the turn of the Century, Richardson and his wife are living comfortably, but his meddlesome mother Amelia has been left homeless in the dirty streets of Whitechapel--left to fend for herself.

Imagine, what she must have suffered: the workhouse infirmary records list her as having abscessed teeth, rheumatism, and bronchitis, and she ultimately died alone and scorned in the workhouse.

What a sad fate for this prime & proper woman who once held prayer meetings in these same slums!



Carions Tooth: an abscessed tooth. Homeless: What misery must hide in that single word.

To have abandoned her like that, John Richardson must have hated the old girl with a passion.

Another reference to her homelessness, this time with rheumatism and bronchitis.

There could be a book in this Roger.

[Mark J D]

Blah... real policemen ... blah ... the policeman's psyche ... blah ... heard it all, seen it all ... blah ... bitter experience ... blah... suspicious of everyone ... blah ...

I never cease to be amazed at the way white anglophone attitudes to the police manifest all the irrational characteristics of a religion multiplied by an addiction. However much contradictory evidence is available about what the police are and always were, the fundamental faith is never impacted, and the craving comes back worse than before: they're sensible, honest, competent, law-upholding, fair-minded, dedicated, not at all the racist, misogynist boot-boys of private wealth and the violent state, and they definitely, definitely, definitely would have used hundreds of hours of scarce manpower to check out a white Christian working man with a respectable job at a big company...

Now, if the year had been 1988 and Lechmere had been black...

M.

[Abby Normal]

Another interesting angle to the theoretical case against Richardson...

When trawling through the Lechmere threads, one sees Maria Lechmere being characterized as a demanding, controlling woman who taught her son to despise the 'fallen women' of St. George in the East. In reality, we really know nothing about her personality or attitudes--it is sheer guesswork.

But might not this characterization of a controlling, fanatical woman be better applied to John Richardson's mother, Amelia?

It was John Richardson's mother, after all, who made a great show of “kissing the book” at the Chapman inquest. No other witness called to give evidence is reported to have acted with such piety. The ELO also made a point of mentioning that Mrs. Richardson was better dressed and better behaved than her East End counterparts.

And it was also Richardson's mother who held what must have been very tedious prayer meetings on Friday nights. Is there any doubt she must have been a stern teetotaler?

It must have been a living hell for young man like John, who had enjoyed a free roving spirit when he joined the militia at an early age (to get away from his mother?) and who must have many times enjoyed the women and the drink of the garrison towns.

Yet, back in the East End it was always: "Wipe your feet, John. Don't forget the prayer meeting tonight, John. Remember to pray to Jesus, John. Get up early and check my locks tomorrow, John. Stay away from those scarlet women, John."

How Richardson must have felt about this pious old fanatic can be judged by Amelia Richardson's ultimate fate. By the turn of the Century, Richardson and his wife are living comfortably, but his meddlesome mother Amelia has been left homeless in the dirty streets of Whitechapel--left to fend for herself.

Imagine, what she must have suffered: the workhouse infirmary records list her as having abscessed teeth, rheumatism, and bronchitis, and she ultimately died alone and scorned in the workhouse.

What a sad fate for this prime & proper woman who once held prayer meetings in these same slums!



Carions Tooth: an abscessed tooth. Homeless: What misery must hide in that single word.

To have abandoned her like that, John Richardson must have hated the old girl with a passion.

Another reference to her homelessness, this time with rheumatism and bronchitis.

and how many times was she bigamously married? or how many string of men did she marry, for that matter?

[Abby Normal]

What is the "evidence of innocence" in regard to John Richardson? Isn't that how this silly game is supposed to be played?

Is that the fact that when asked by the Coroner to run home and fetch the knife that he was brandishing while in the backyard in the early morning hours while with a dead prostitute, Richardson returned with a dull butter knife that could barely snap a carrot in two?

Imagine the howls of derision had this been Lechmere.

well one would be the two witnesses who place her time of death later, coroberating richardson that she wasnt there when he was.

[rjpalmer]

Another interesting angle to the theoretical case against Richardson...

When trawling through the Lechmere threads, one sees Maria Lechmere being characterized as a demanding, controlling woman who taught her son to despise the 'fallen women' of St. George in the East. In reality, we really know nothing about her personality or attitudes--it is sheer guesswork.

But might not this characterization of a controlling, fanatical woman be better applied to John Richardson's mother, Amelia?

It was John Richardson's mother, after all, who made a great show of “kissing the book” at the Chapman inquest. No other witness called to give evidence is reported to have acted with such piety. The ELO also made a point of mentioning that Mrs. Richardson was better dressed and better behaved than her East End counterparts.

And it was also Richardson's mother who held what must have been very tedious prayer meetings on Friday nights. Is there any doubt she must have been a stern teetotaler?

It must have been a living hell for young man like John, who had enjoyed a free roving spirit when he joined the militia at an early age (to get away from his mother?) and who must have many times enjoyed the women and the drink of the garrison towns.

Yet, back in the East End it was always: "Wipe your feet, John. Don't forget the prayer meeting tonight, John. Remember to pray to Jesus, John. Get up early and check my locks tomorrow, John. Stay away from those scarlet women, John."

How Richardson must have felt about this pious old fanatic can be judged by Amelia Richardson's ultimate fate. By the turn of the Century, Richardson and his wife are living comfortably, but his meddlesome mother Amelia has been left homeless in the dirty streets of Whitechapel--left to fend for herself.

Imagine, what she must have suffered: the workhouse infirmary records list her as having abscessed teeth, rheumatism, and bronchitis, and she ultimately died alone and scorned in the workhouse.

What a sad fate for this prime & proper woman who once held prayer meetings in these same slums!



Carions Tooth: an abscessed tooth. Homeless: What misery must hide in that single word.

To have abandoned her like that, John Richardson must have hated the old girl with a passion.

Another reference to her homelessness, this time with rheumatism and bronchitis.

[MrBarnett]

It was the cops who asked Richardson to fetch the knife? Wasn't it the Coroner, or am I misremembering that?

To be honest, the derision about not checking out CAL and Paul is well-placed. Some here clearly haven't spent much time around real policemen--and, as a result, they misunderstand the policeman's psyche. They've heard it all, seen it all, and through bitter experience take very little on faith.

In short, they are suspicious of everyone--especially men out and about in the dark streets at 3.45 in the morning. That's a no-brainer. It didn't matter what Paul and CAL told Mizen, the minute the policeman saw the woman back in Buck's Row was dead and mangled, his mind would have raced back to the two men he had just encountered.

So, of course they would have been checked out. There were virtually no other suspects to scrutinize beyond the horse slaughterers and Nichol's known acquaintances. And Lord knows policemen would want to find a suspect in a murder investigation.

Of course, the mere fact that were checked-out is not proof of Paul's innocence. Nor CAL's. But it does undermine the belief that CAL was up to some ruse when he used the name of the man who had raised him from childhood to adulthood.

Yes, it apparently hadn’t occurred to the cops, just as it didn’t occur to them to knock on the doors in Buck’s Row.

[Herlock Sholmes]

hth.

M.

Why would he have turned left in Commercial Street rather than going straight on? But even if he had gone that way why would he have ignored turning right into Brushfield Street taking him directly to Liverpool Street? The map route would involve zig-zagging (Crispin Street/Artillery Lane) why would he have done that rather than taking the direct route?

Have you posted proposed routes past each murder site with reasons for taking those routes Mark?

[rjpalmer]

Yes, and the howls of derision directed at those who are adamant that CAL would have been thoroughly checked out by the ultra efficient Keystone Cops.

It was the cops who asked Richardson to fetch the knife? Wasn't it the Coroner, or am I misremembering that?

To be honest, the derision about not checking out CAL and Paul is well-placed. Some here clearly haven't spent much time around real policemen--and, as a result, they misunderstand the policeman's psyche. They've heard it all, seen it all, and through bitter experience take very little on faith.

In short, they are suspicious of everyone--especially men out and about in the dark streets at 3.45 in the morning. That's a no-brainer. It didn't matter what Paul and CAL told Mizen, the minute the policeman saw the woman back in Buck's Row was dead and mangled, his mind would have raced back to the two men he had just encountered.

So, of course they would have been checked out. There were virtually no other suspects to scrutinize beyond the horse slaughterers and Nichol's known acquaintances. And Lord knows policemen would want to find a suspect in a murder investigation.

Of course, the mere fact that were checked-out is not proof of Paul's innocence. Nor CAL's. But it does undermine the belief that CAL was up to some ruse when he used the name of the man who had raised him from childhood to adulthood.