Bumping Mr Blotchy...

[mpriestnall]

The problem here is, I believe that the descriptions used here could be applied to literally hundreds of men living in the area at the time. Just look at any photos from the time you see lots of Mr Blotchies!

Agreed. Blotchville, Arizona.

[mpriestnall]

Mr Blotchy could not have been the killer if George Hutchinson is to be believed.

Cox saw him with Mary at 11.45pm Hutchinsons time of seeing Mary with another male was around 2am.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Mr Blotchy and Astrakhan were conspiring together to fake Kelly's death IMHO.

[Trevor Marriott]

Mr Blotchy and Astrakhan were conspiring together to fake Kelly's death IMHO.

What was the motive ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[John Wheat]

Mr Blotchy and Astrakhan were conspiring together to fake Kelly's death IMHO.

And the evidence for this is?

[mpriestnall]

And the evidence for this is?

John, you will have to wait for the book.

[mpriestnall]

What was the motive ?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I genuinely believe that Blotchy and Astrakhan conspired to murder a substitute as a cover to relocate Kelly.

But to be honest I haven't fully worked that out the motivation for this. Joshua has asked the same question elsewhere which I know I haven't yet answered to his satisfaction nor mine.

[Losmandris]

Agreed. Blotchville, Arizona.

Apologies for arguing with myself here but....

I wonder if we are missing something with our modern eyes? In that a lot of the men in the old photos look very similar to us (possibly due to the fact we see them in black and white?) but maybe to the people at the time they were very distinguishable. Could they could tell one Mr Blotchy from another with great ease and certainty? Or were they in the same boat as us?

[John Wheat]

John, you will have to wait for the book.

Fair enough.

[Michael W Richards]

But he didn’t claim to be her friend, he claimed to have known her for about 3 years and to have occasionally given her money. Approx 3 years previously she had been operating as a prostitute in the Ratcliff Highway. Which makes it sound like he had been a customer. Or maybe an ex employer?

The first sentence you wrote implies a friendship, and the fact that he stated he loitered around spying on her room suggests he had either an interest in her safety, or he was a stalker of sorts. Generally speaking it would be rare for someone to voluntarily offer information that makes them appear to be a stalker. I think its obvious that he intended that the former interpretation was correct.

To Trevor, I confess I have not read your book and admit that I havent done so because of your assertions here about how, whether, and when, organs were taken from some victims. I havent read many books on the topic that deviate so dramatically from the medical evidence available. That being said I certainly respect your investigative background with the Force and read your insights on those kinds of issues carefully. I have similar respect for the other Ripperologists who bring not only vocational expertise but also socio and knowledgeable geographical perspectives forward.

That being said, perhaps you might enlighten me about this "alledged" contact a bit........I have to say it gets tiresome having to add "alledged" to almost everything concerning these investigations.

[Michael W Richards]

Mr Blotchy and Astrakhan were conspiring together to fake Kelly's death IMHO.

We only know 1 of those people was actually there that night, and we have every reason to believe Astrakan man is a creation, not a real sighting. We have no credible sources for Mary leaving her room again after entering it late Thursday night.

That being said, Ive always been curious about Issacs who moved into then suddenly out of the residence around the corner from Mary.

[Michael W Richards]

I genuinely believe that Blotchy and Astrakhan conspired to murder a substitute as a cover to relocate Kelly.

But to be honest I haven't fully worked that out the motivation for this. Joshua has asked the same question elsewhere which I know I haven't yet answered to his satisfaction nor mine.

Perhaps there might be some legs to the idea that this murder allowed the real woman who had been identifying herself as Mary Kelly to move into more suitable hiding. Marys trip to Paris as a "consort", Paris being the staging city for almost all of the Fenian terrorist plots of that period, and her subsequent premature return may well be part of this picture. Paris is also where Anderson was summoned to return from, oddly not Switzerland, where he supposedly went for rest. Andersons relationship with known terrorists and double agents make any visit of his to Paris during that period interesting. We know a plot to kill Balfour was in the works, and the Jubilee bombing plan had been foiled and suspects arrested in early 1888. Was he there on business? Parnell Commission related? Was Kelly exposed to any of these characters in Paris, and scared to the extent that she fled back to London and "hid" in the courtyard assuming a street life? Maybe with National Intelligence assistance?

Just thinking out loud, so no need to try and counter something that isnt actually being claimed as facts.

[mpriestnall]

Perhaps there might be some legs to the idea that this murder allowed the real woman who had been identifying herself as Mary Kelly to move into more suitable hiding. Marys trip to Paris as a "consort", Paris being the staging city for almost all of the Fenian terrorist plots of that period, and her subsequent premature return may well be part of this picture. Paris is also where Anderson was summoned to return from, oddly not Switzerland, where he supposedly went for rest. Andersons relationship with known terrorists and double agents make any visit of his to Paris during that period interesting. We know a plot to kill Balfour was in the works, and the Jubilee bombing plan had been foiled and suspects arrested in early 1888. Was he there on business? Parnell Commission related? Was Kelly exposed to any of these characters in Paris, and scared to the extent that she fled back to London and "hid" in the courtyard assuming a street life? Maybe with National Intelligence assistance?

Just thinking out loud, so no need to try and counter something that isnt actually being claimed as facts.

I don't believe the core of Barnett's testimony into Kelly's background e.g. I believe she was neither Irish nor Welsh, lost her husband in an explosion or any of her early life history. A fenian related plot is possible but I don't consider it likely.

My take on these murders is this: I believe there was some rather prosaic scandal in Astrakhan's personal life e.g. an affair with another gentlemens wife, that both he and Jack tried to keep quiet or were being blackmailed about. The blackmailers would be Kelly plus one or two of the other canonical victims. I believe they were middle-class gentlemen who just so happened to have the right high-level connections to cover up their crimes. These connections were derived, but not exclusively, through masonic associations. The other personal/professional connections would be something like with the P.O.W. and the P.M.

I believe that Jack was arrested after the double-event. I think the so-called discrediting of Packer, the non-appearance of Schwartz at the inquest, the publishing of the "Dear Boss" letters to lay a false narrative about these crimes are all part ofthe initial cover up. The dubious nature of Kelly's inquest with Barnett providing a false identity and background to Kelly is the final stage of the cover up.

Kelly did not die at Miller's Court.

[John Wheat]

I don't believe the core of Barnett's testimony into Kelly's background e.g. I believe she was neither Irish nor Welsh, lost her husband in an explosion or any of her early life history. A fenian related plot is possible but I don't consider it likely.

My take on these murders is this: I believe there was some rather prosaic scandal in Astrakhan's personal life e.g. an affair with another gentlemens wife, that both he and Jack tried to keep quiet or were being blackmailed about. The blackmailers would be Kelly plus one or two of the other canonical victims. I believe they were middle-class gentlemen who just so happened to have the right high-level connections to cover up their crimes. These connections were derived, but not exclusively, through masonic associations. The other personal/professional connections would be something like with the P.O.W. and the P.M.

I believe that Jack was arrested after the double-event. I think the so-called discrediting of Packer, the non-appearance of Schwartz at the inquest, the publishing of the "Dear Boss" letters to lay a false narrative about these crimes are all part ofthe initial cover up. The dubious nature of Kelly's inquest with Barnett providing a false identity and background to Kelly is the final stage of the cover up.

Kelly did not die at Miller's Court.

If Kelly didn't die at Miller's Court who did?

[Aethelwulf]

I don't believe the core of Barnett's testimony into Kelly's background e.g. I believe she was neither Irish nor Welsh, lost her husband in an explosion or any of her early life history. A fenian related plot is possible but I don't consider it likely.

My take on these murders is this: I believe there was some rather prosaic scandal in Astrakhan's personal life e.g. an affair with another gentlemens wife, that both he and Jack tried to keep quiet or were being blackmailed about. The blackmailers would be Kelly plus one or two of the other canonical victims. I believe they were middle-class gentlemen who just so happened to have the right high-level connections to cover up their crimes. These connections were derived, but not exclusively, through masonic associations. The other personal/professional connections would be something like with the P.O.W. and the P.M.

I believe that Jack was arrested after the double-event. I think the so-called discrediting of Packer, the non-appearance of Schwartz at the inquest, the publishing of the "Dear Boss" letters to lay a false narrative about these crimes are all part ofthe initial cover up. The dubious nature of Kelly's inquest with Barnett providing a false identity and background to Kelly is the final stage of the cover up.

Kelly did not die at Miller's Court.

I'm sorry, but what a load of complete and utter rubbish! I don't understand how you dream this stuff up!

[mpriestnall]

If Kelly didn't die at Miller's Court who did?

I have no idea. I'm sure it wasn't Kelly.