Could the Ripper have been a Policeman?

[RavenDarkendale]

Not a problem, Monty, no apology required.

@Phil

Never thought about that reason for the gloves, but it makes sense. The collars and cuffs I knew about, though I cringe to think how that shirt smelled after several days wearing under a waistcoat, jacket, and outer jacket!

Then there were the formal "shirt fronts". The shirt needn't be clean, just that starched white "bib" that was worn over it to give the illusion, helped along by starched collar and cuffs, that one could afford formal shirts!

RD

[Robert]

I'm sure Long would have appreciated a pair of gloves in Goulston St.

[Phil H]

Gloves were worn by gentlemen because of the mud, smog and general uncleaness of the Victorian city. By wearing gloves you protected your hands from all the fingers might touch.

Same with detachable collars and cuffs - you could keep the same shirt all day - or over several days if necessary - but it was the collar and cuffs that were seen and thus could be replaced as required, and certainly in the evening.

Wearing the same shirt over several days was not a problem, as a vest worn underneath would have absorbed most of the sweat/perspiration. besides, the Victorians were less obsessed with smell and things like body odour than we are. men would have reeked of tobacco, mokassar oil (on hair) strong scent etc.

Phil H

[Monty]

I owe you and apology Raven,

Having just read through my copy of the City of London Police regulation book it seems gloves are not listed as part of their issued kit.

However I have seen reference to them in reports and news reports of the period. Also, I do have this photo. However this seems more cerimonial than duty.

Monty

[RavenDarkendale]

Sorry Michael,

Missed your question.

Yes, they were issued with gloves however wearing them was down to the Constables disgression. Similar thing with the cape.

I suspect night beat PCs wore gloves. No because of the cold, more protection against the heated handles of the Bulls eye lamps which get very hot.

Monty

Hi Monty

Wearing gloves in the cold (and damp) makes sense. It's the illustrations in the newspapers of the day that seem to never show them!

Raven Darkendale

[Monty]

Sorry Michael,

Missed your question.

Yes, they were issued with gloves however wearing them was down to the Constables disgression. Similar thing with the cape.

I suspect night beat PCs wore gloves. No because of the cold, more protection against the heated handles of the Bulls eye lamps which get very hot.

Monty

[RavenDarkendale]

Were the beat men prone to wearing gloves?

All the best.

For the most part, Victorian people were obsessed with wearing gloves, which they immediately removed upon going indoors. A gentleman wore hat, gloves, and carried an umbrella or walking stick. Did the police constables wear them on duty? Pictures of the time suggest that they didn't. Although dress uniforms had gloves included, the everyday uniform on the street seemed to lack them.

[Michael W Richards]

Indeed Robert,

Men were mustered before being marched out on their beats. Here they would be inspected. Kit would have been checked, uniform and if the PC was suitable for duty (that is most often than not, sober). This inspection was done by the beat or Section Sergeant.

Then the Station Inspector, or Sergeant, would read the Police Orders for the day, highlighting the major points.

Once that is done the Bobbies were marched out on to their beats. Throughout the beats, the Beat Sergeant would do his rounds to ensure all is correct (see the McKenzie murder and Sgt Andrews).

Once the beat shift was completed the Beat Sergeant gathers the beats in and marches them back to the station.

When back at the Station a de brief occurs and the Sergeant will conduct another inspection where kit is again checked, uniform inspected and the fitness of the PC is made, to see if he has been drinking.

Monty

Hi Monty,

On the above point, I do recall a press piece that had a man wearing white coveralls acting strangely on one of the murder nights...that type of scenario could address the concerns a patrolman might have based on the above.

Were the beat men prone to wearing gloves?

All the best.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

Richard Pearce, 922 City of London Police, wasn't on Abberline's team, which was formed following the double-event.

As far as I am able to ascertain the police officer in question was Sergeant A. Pearce, H Division, based at Leman Street.

There are a couple of non-Ripper references to him in The Times.

Regards,

Simon

Sorry for the late thank you for the above Simon. I was just wondering.

Cheers my friend.

[Monty]

Thanks, Monty,

An entire laundry list, apparently. :-)

I was wondering about a discussion of crimes during the previous shift?

If anything unusual had happened in the district (probably not the right word) or the area the station covered.

or, anything like:

"Men, while you're out there, if you happen to see a carman, check him out. We need to locate the two that found the body in Buck's Row"

Anything like that?

I know that when a shift changes at a nurses station, the patient list is discussed and how each has been during that shift and if anything is coming up.

I suspected that the change of duty with policemen might be somewhat similar.

Thanks, again,

curious

Well yes Curious,

Obviously what I've listed is fairly wide ranging and covers some years.

Basically they would have been briefed on relevant info, such as vulnerable buildings. We do know Halse et al were told to look at suspicious couples and this could be another of these Police Order instructions.

Monty

[curious]

Hi Curious,

The type of things included are varied. The ones I've seen mention temporary promotions, supplement officers, escorting of prisoners to court, supplements Met, Supplementing City, conditions of section houses, beat alterations, uniform orders, truncheon inspections, leave of officers, summons of PCs by the Commissioner, the reporting of off duty drunk PCs, the cleaning of rugs in Rose Alley, new procedures, the use of photographers, yearly returns, mess rules, leave and pay allocation, gratuities, Plain clothes duties....wish me to carry on?

Monty

Thanks, Monty,

An entire laundry list, apparently. :-)

I was wondering about a discussion of crimes during the previous shift?

If anything unusual had happened in the district (probably not the right word) or the area the station covered.

or, anything like:

"Men, while you're out there, if you happen to see a carman, check him out. We need to locate the two that found the body in Buck's Row"

Anything like that?

I know that when a shift changes at a nurses station, the patient list is discussed and how each has been during that shift and if anything is coming up.

I suspected that the change of duty with policemen might be somewhat similar.

Thanks, again,

curious

[Monty]

Hi Curious,

The type of things included are varied. The ones I've seen mention temporary promotions, supplement officers, escorting of prisoners to court, supplements Met, Supplementing City, conditions of section houses, beat alterations, uniform orders, truncheon inspections, leave of officers, summons of PCs by the Commissioner, the reporting of off duty drunk PCs, the cleaning of rugs in Rose Alley, new procedures, the use of photographers, yearly returns, mess rules, leave and pay allocation, gratuities, Plain clothes duties....wish me to carry on?

Monty

[curious]

Then the Station Inspector, or Sergeant, would read the Police Orders for the day, highlighting the major points.
Monty

Hi, Monty!

Thanks for that great description.

I'm wondering what type of things are included in Police Orders.

Thanks,
curious

[Monty]

Indeed Robert,

Men were mustered before being marched out on their beats. Here they would be inspected. Kit would have been checked, uniform and if the PC was suitable for duty (that is most often than not, sober). This inspection was done by the beat or Section Sergeant.

Then the Station Inspector, or Sergeant, would read the Police Orders for the day, highlighting the major points.

Once that is done the Bobbies were marched out on to their beats. Throughout the beats, the Beat Sergeant would do his rounds to ensure all is correct (see the McKenzie murder and Sgt Andrews).

Once the beat shift was completed the Beat Sergeant gathers the beats in and marches them back to the station.

When back at the Station a de brief occurs and the Sergeant will conduct another inspection where kit is again checked, uniform inspected and the fitness of the PC is made, to see if he has been drinking.

Monty

[Robert]

Clapp was another who heard nothing. And he wasn't a deaf old codger - he was quite a young man.

I might be wrong here, but I understood that the police had to parade for duty in those days. I can't help thinking that blood on a uniform would have been noticed.