A New Suspect - John Pavitt Sawyer

**David Knott** · 08-26-2012, 08:59 AM

There are a couple of points that I mentioned on the previous thread, which (to me) suggest a hoax.

Firstly, in his letter Sawyer claims to have spent the whole of October 1888 in solitude, and to have been unaware of the fervour that his actions had caused. Unfortunately, during this period the real John Sawyer signed a petition requesting an increase in police numbers due to the effects that the crimes were having on local trade.

Secondly, 'Pearse' states that he can find no reason why the meetings were held in the White Swan, even though the most basic internet search reveals that one of the group, Decimus Newland, was the landlord there. I suspect that 'Pearse' was fully aware of that when he asked readers to contact him with any information he might have overlooked! However, I suspect he wasn't aware that Newland had left the White Swan and moved down the road to the George a couple of years prior to 1888, and actually died in 1887!

**Steven Russell** · 08-26-2012, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by David Knott View Post

However, I suspect he wasn't aware that Newland had left the White Swan and moved down the road to the George a couple of years prior to 1888, and actually died in 1887!

Surely this is conclusive isn't it?

Best wishes,
Steve.

**David Knott** · 08-26-2012, 09:19 AM

Steve,

I'd have to check the book again (it's been a few months since I read it) but I don't think it states that Newland was alive and present at meetings during 1888, only that the meetings were held at the White Swan.

David

**Chris Scott** · 08-26-2012, 09:27 AM

As a researcher the one thing I find frustrating is that the author - using the name Frank Pearse - claims that as his knowledge of the field of Ripper studies is limited, which is fair enough, and actually asks for further research from people who know more of this area.
The notes on the book on its Amazon page end with this statement:-
"If my work in this book prompts the reader to discover more please let me know."
The poster who started the earlier thread (I believe the user name was Zagreus) said that he/she had edited the book and repeated that the author wanted contact from those who had studied the field in order to further the findings about this story.
The problem is that I - who would be very willing to take up his offer and send him what I have found - can find no mechanism to contact him. I have bought the book and there is no indication in there and as the book is self published (the publisher being given on Amazon as "Egerton-Bear") I cannot contact the publisher and ask them to forward a message. I posted a message under the reviews on the Amazon page but it was not added to the customer reviews.
When the link was posted to the earlier thread I tried to contact "Zagreus" as he/she said he was the editor of the book. However on his Casebook profile there was no facility to send a private message and when I tried to send an e-mail it said he was not accepting e-mails.
If anyone knows how to contact Frank Pearse, then please let me know.
If you ask for help with research there must be a way for that offer to be taken up
Chris Scott

**David Knott** · 08-26-2012, 09:42 AM

Chris,

That's a good point, and quite funny!

Steve,

I've just checked, and have now spotted something that I had previously missed, which appears to blow the whole thing out of the water. The reference to Decimus Newland is on the list of Lodge members dated June 1887 (he died in July 1887) that 'Pearse' found in the Tower Hamlets Local History Library.
The reference to the White Swan is in respect of a meeting that took place some time after 10th Feb 1888, when Newland was introduced to Captain Lister.
The problem is that Sawyer's name appears on the June 1887 list of brethren, a full seven months before he was supposedly introduced to them. Oops!

**David Knott** · 08-26-2012, 11:13 AM

Apologies, last post should read " when Sawyer was introduced to Captain Lister" not " when Newland" etc.

**lynn cates** · 08-26-2012, 11:48 AM

Americanisms

Hello Serya. Permit me to welcome you to the boards if I have not already done so.

If you recall the page where Sawyer describes Annie's murder--were you troubled by a couple of stray Americanisms there?

Cheers.
LC

**lynn cates** · 08-26-2012, 11:54 AM

there it is

Hello David. Rather damning, isn't it?

Cheers.
LC

**HelenaWojtczak** · 08-26-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post

I - who would be very willing to take up his offer and send him what I have found - can find no mechanism to contact him. I have bought the book and there is no indication in there and as the book is self published (the publisher being given on Amazon as "Egerton-Bear") I cannot contact the publisher and ask them to forward a message. I posted a message under the reviews on the Amazon page but it was not added to the customer reviews.

How utterly infuriating, Chris! It's just staggering that he invites contact by provides no means. Why was your message not added to customer reviews, I wonder? I will try to leave a message on your behalf on there myself.

Helena

**Chris Scott** · 08-26-2012, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post

How utterly infuriating, Chris! It's just staggering that he invites contact by provides no means. Why was your message not added to customer reviews, I wonder? I will try to leave a message on your behalf on there myself.

Helena

many thanks Helena

**HelenaWojtczak** · 08-26-2012, 02:05 PM

I just checked and Amazon has allowed my comment, so hopefully he'll respond.

**serya** · 08-26-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

Hello Serya. Permit me to welcome you to the boards if I have not already done so.

If you recall the page where Sawyer describes Annie's murder--were you troubled by a couple of stray Americanisms there?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn, Thanks for the welcome. A lurker and rare poster years ago, I decided to join in for real .

Being an American myself, I was not troubled by the stray Americanisms, since I am surrounded by the damn things daily.

Which ones are you talking about?

Since there has been a re-write of the original document, and the editor is unknown, much of it could have been re-written by an American editor for all we know.

It does seem odd that so little is said about the actual crimes, the whole reason for the confession. They are completely glossed over with no detail except the one that was pointed out here to probably be wrong- throat cut while standing.

**lynn cates** · 08-26-2012, 05:51 PM

E G

Hello Serya. Thanks.

I was thinking about "practice" instead of "practise." Also, the date was not British style.

Yes, more time was required on the details.

Cheers.
LC

**Steven Russell** · 08-26-2012, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by David Knott View Post

Steve,

I'd have to check the book again (it's been a few months since I read it) but I don't think it states that Newland was alive and present at meetings during 1888, only that the meetings were held at the White Swan.

David

Thanks for that, David. If that's the case, then it's rather less damning.

Best wishes,
Steve.

**Steven Russell** · 08-26-2012, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

Hello Serya. Thanks.

I was thinking about "practice" instead of "practise." Also, the date was not British style.

Yes, more time was required on the details.

Cheers.
LC

Many people don't know the difference between "practice" and "practise". In British English, "practice" is the noun and "practise" the verb. Also, many things we Brits now regard as Americanisms are actually things which were perfectly acceptable in British English in the past but have fallen out of use on this side of the pond.

The date may be another matter though. We (UK) use DD/MM/YY whereas I understand Americans use MM/DD/YY. If the latter form is used, I would definitely suspect a non-British author.

Best wishes,
Steve.

A New Suspect - John Pavitt Sawyer

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