How the Ripper could have died

[RivkahChaya]

"Blotchy" refers to red or rosy patches--principally upon the cheeks. It was thought to result from excessive food/drink.

That's what I would have said. I concur.

Phil H

So, without speculating as to what this actually was, just what it probably looked like, are we talking about something like rosacea?

Here's a random image from the web:



Seriously, that's actually from a website about rosacea, although I do not know that Prince Charles has been diagnosed with it. My mother has, and she gets red like she's blushing if she just has a few sips of wine, although supposedly it's from the tannins, and not the alcohol, and that's probably true, because red wine affects her much more than something like vodka, although she never drinks hard liquor in anything but a cocktail, so that's not a fair test.

Here's a real random image from the web:



That's what my mother's face will look like, except she has olive skin, so it isn't as obvious.

Is this what we are talking about?

I'm just asking, because I've never been able to picture this, as it doesn't really have a standard meaning in the US. I always figured that whatever it meant, it wasn't something alarming, but I just never did know.

Prince Charles has really close-set eyes.

ETA: which witness description had the blotches? I'm thumbing through the A to Z, and can't find it. If it was someone who saw him after dusk, is it a fair assumption that for blotchy skin to be apparent, he would be someone who was fair-skinned to begin with?

[Phil H]

"Blotchy" refers to red or rosy patches--principally upon the cheeks. It was thought to result from excessive food/drink.

That's what I would have said. I concur.

Phil H

[lynn cates]

blotchy

Hello Rivkah, Abby. "Blotchy" refers to red or rosy patches--principally upon the cheeks.

It was thought to result from excessive food/drink.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

It would totally depend on what sort of infection he picked up, but yeah, some of the things he picked up could have.

Does "blotchy" have a more standard meaning in British English than it does in the US? here, it could mean that he had a port-wine stain, was recovering from a severe allergic reaction that gave him hives, or from a pox, like chicken pox, or that he had a rare condition like Kaposi's Sarcoma, or Vitiligo (something which would be hard to see on a fully-clothed white person at night).

Hi
i have always wondered if the description of "Blotchy" the suspect meant blotchy as in pock marked (the melted cheese on a pizza look) or as port-wine stain (or sun burnt affect).

BTW in my opinion Blotchy is the best candidate we have for JtR.

Now to the original point of your thread-How JtR died. I would say prematurely of some kind of disease-perhaps alcohol related or an infection as you mentioned. Or violently in a street incident(fight) or perhaps in jail.

[RivkahChaya]

It would totally depend on what sort of infection he picked up, but yeah, some of the things he picked up could have.

Does "blotchy" have a more standard meaning in British English than it does in the US? here, it could mean that he had a port-wine stain, was recovering from a severe allergic reaction that gave him hives, or from a pox, like chicken pox, or that he had a rare condition like Kaposi's Sarcoma, or Vitiligo (something which would be hard to see on a fully-clothed white person at night).

[Damaso Marte]

Hi there!

Yep, it's been discussed before--not only in connection with his death, but also as a possible explanation for his inactivity throughout October.

It wouldn't happen to cause blotchy skin, would it?

[Barnaby]

Manitoba Daily Free Press
Winnipeg, Canada
29 April 1891

Jack the Ripper May be Dead
London, April 28.
'A report is current in this city that the unknown man who some three weeks ago suicided at Wimbledon, has been identified as "Jack the Ripper."

Maybe he simply had jolly good ripping serve?

[Jonathan H]

What about a conveniently timed suicide, say, after the final murder -- that of Frances Coles on Feb 13th 1891?

Like this:

Manitoba Daily Free Press
Winnipeg, Canada
29 April 1891

Jack the Ripper May be Dead
London, April 28.
'A report is current in this city that the unknown man who some three weeks ago suicided at Wimbledon, has been identified as "Jack the Ripper." Not much credence is, however, given to the story in well-informed circles.'


Apparently he shot himself.

[Errata]

Thanks! (now I'll be up all night).

I'd give her more than evens. Once she pointed out that it didn't make any sense for Richard to have killed the boys in secret, she had me. He couldn't gain any advantage from their deaths if no one knew they were dead. That's kind of also how she sold me on Henry VII as the real mastermind. The boys were probably killed the day he set up shop in London; announcing their deaths at that point would look suspicious. and possibly they were killed impulsively impulsively in a way that made it look obvious they were murdered. For some reason, Henry couldn't display the bodies, so he said they weren't to be found, and then started the rumor that Richard had killed them years earlier. I'd love it if the crown would allow a new examination of the bones, now that we have DNA testing, and all. Maybe in 2033.

I think the bones were carbon dated to maybe the 17th century? Noy likely the princes.

I've always derived a certain pleasure in Jack dying in an incredibly stupid way. Like getting stuck in a storm drain trying to escape, or getting hit by a team of horses while pursuing a victim. Or even a brick falling on his head right as he raised the knife on an unsuspecting woman.

[Magpie]

Hi there!

Yep, it's been discussed before--not only in connection with his death, but also as a possible explanation for his inactivity throughout October.

[RivkahChaya]

Hello RivkahChaya

The idea that the Ripper could have caught septicemia by nicking himself with his knife, especially when exposed to the blood and fetal matter in, say, the Eddowes murder, has been discussed before on Casebook forums.
Best regards

Chris

Thanks! (now I'll be up all night).

Yes Rivkah...odd choice of name but bearing in mind who writes the History books, I give her at least evens she was right about Richard!

All the best

Dave

I'd give her more than evens. Once she pointed out that it didn't make any sense for Richard to have killed the boys in secret, she had me. He couldn't gain any advantage from their deaths if no one knew they were dead. That's kind of also how she sold me on Henry VII as the real mastermind. The boys were probably killed the day he set up shop in London; announcing their deaths at that point would look suspicious. and possibly they were killed impulsively impulsively in a way that made it look obvious they were murdered. For some reason, Henry couldn't display the bodies, so he said they weren't to be found, and then started the rumor that Richard had killed them years earlier. I'd love it if the crown would allow a new examination of the bones, now that we have DNA testing, and all. Maybe in 2033.

[Cogidubnus]

Gosh, I'd love to go to London for six months, just to look up stuff like this. I wish I had a Brent Carradine (it's so funny that Josephine Tey picked that as an American sounding name).

Yes Rivkah...odd choice of name but bearing in mind who writes the History books, I give her at least evens she was right about Richard!

All the best

Dave

[Wade Aznable]

Extremely interesting links, Chris, thank you!

Best regards,
W

[ChrisGeorge]

I was talking to a friend about the way Houdini died, of a perforated appendix, and peritonitis, and we got on the topic of the fact that many of the women who died of back-alley abortions died of uterine abscess, and essentially also either peritonitis or septicemia. I got to thinking how many people died slow deaths from those sorts of infections before penicillin: US Pres. Calvin Coolidge's son got septicemia from an infected blister; two of the US presidents who were assassinated (Garfield and McKinley) lingered for a long time after being shot in the abdomen, and died of infection rather than organ damage from the bullet. The famous toothpick death of Sherwood Anderson was a peritonitis death, albeit, one that might have been fixed with exploratory surgery if he hadn't been aboard a ship. Charles Dawson, of the Piltdown hoax died of septicemia, although I'm not sure how he contracted it.

Anyway, here's what I'm wondering: what would happen if JTR nicked himself with the knife he used on his victims? It was usually covered in blood, and the blood of more than one person. Rinsing in cold water doesn't kill everything. Plus, he cut open bowels, and the sex organs of women who may have had venereal diseases, or may have recently had sex with men who had venereal diseases. And, then, we are talking about a metal knife that easily could have harbored tetanus.

It seems unlikely that at some point, he wouldn't eventually nick himself, and once he did, he'd be very lucky not to get some sort of really awful infection. Do hospitals still have records of people who came in with gangrenous or gangrenous-type (I'm not sure what they would have called a localized staph infection), or some other odd type of infection that required amputation, or caused death by septicemia. I'm not sure what would happen if you had blood to blood transference of syphilis-- if that would transfer the disease at all, or possibly accelerate the rate at which it progressed. Then, there's tetanus. Maybe there were cases of tetanus where the patient would say how he was infected, or claimed not to know, or had an implausible story.

Gosh, I'd love to go to London for six months, just to look up stuff like this. I wish I had a Brent Carradine (it's so funny that Josephine Tey picked that as an American sounding name).

Hello RivkahChaya

The idea that the Ripper could have caught septicemia by nicking himself with his knife, especially when exposed to the blood and fetal matter in, say, the Eddowes murder, has been discussed before on the Casebook forums and at JtR Forums.

Best regards

Chris

[Wade Aznable]

Extremely interesting questions, and suggestions for research!

Best regards,
W