The Mizen scam

[Lechmere]

Given the timings and the fact that the information came out on Sunday evening, when in all probability Charles Lechmere also came forward, and due to Mizen being from a different Division, I suspect that Mizen wasn't questioned or made aware of the discrepancy until everyone met face to face at the inquest on the Monday morning.

[Fisherman]

Which puts Mizen in the clear! The force on the whole, though, looks more and more incompetent the deeper we dig. If they really did not check with Mizen and Thain very early on in the process - and it would seem that they did NOT - then I am amazed by the lack of professionalism evinced.

The best,
Fisherman

[Lechmere]

Mizen probably thought nothing of it until he became aware of the Paul newspaper interview.

[Cogidubnus]

Keep talking fellas...you may convince yourselves some day...

Don't you think it's possible Mizen was something of a dummy...or even a uniform carrier? That he was put on knocking up because that was just about all he could be trusted with? That he was sent off to fetch the ambulance because the other two had rapidly summed him up, and decided it was something he might manage without falling over his own flat feet?

When Cross was recalled at the Inquest to clarify regarding Mizen's evidence why do you suppose nobody followed it up? Do you not think they might've humoured the dummy, only so far then shrugged their shoulders and given up?

Let's be honest...your suggestions are only as likely as mine...the only real "fact" you have is the Lechmere/Cross nomenclature debate...all the rest is surmise...you need more...I agree you've made out a reasonable case for looking at Cross as a possible suspect...but that I'm afraid is all...

All the best

Dave

[Lechmere]

Cog
There are lots of facts
Such as the dress covering the wounds.
Such as Mizen saying that Cross said to him he was wanted by a policeman.
Such as Cross not taking the shortest route to work.

And re-reading your post...
Such as that Cross wasn't recalled.
Such as that Neil was on his own when Mizen arrived and so Mizen being sent for the ambulance was a natural act.
Such as that knocking up duty was a standard beat practice.

That's not to say that Mizen wasn't a dummy of course.

[Cogidubnus]

And re-reading your post...
Such as that Cross wasn't recalled.

So just when was Cross asked to confirm whether or not he'd suggested he'd seen a policeman in Buck's Row? Because without this assertion surely the whole Mizen Scam Scam falls down?

All the best

Dave

[DVV]

Yes Dave, and Paul wasn't asked either, nor did remember that in his press interview.

[Lechmere]

Recalled means called back after first giving evidence. Charles lechmere in the guise of Charles cross gave his evidence after mizen and so far as can be determined in one session - without being recalled.

[Monty]

Which puts Mizen in the clear! The force on the whole, though, looks more and more incompetent the deeper we dig. If they really did not check with Mizen and Thain very early on in the process - and it would seem that they did NOT - then I am amazed by the lack of professionalism evinced.

The best,
Fisherman

I'm not surprised Christer. Not one jot.

Monty

[Lechmere]

Neither am I monty

[Monty]

No Ed,

It wouldn't suit you to be.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Monty:

"I'm not surprised Christer. Not one jot."

Then that makes three of us that are not surprised:

Edward, who sees what I speak of.

You, who only see that I say that this puts Mizen in the clear, and who have some sort of need to paint me out as totally uninterested in any facts or information that does not point towards Lechmere.

And I, who realize that you take this to be gospel for me, instead of accepting that what I say means "If this holds true, then Mizen is in the clear".

The best,
Fisherman

[caz]

Sorry I'm late to the party, folks.

Imagine you killed Nichols and will be looking for another opportunity asap (in fact you go on to kill again just a few days later).

Imagine you bluff your way through a close call with a stranger (Paul) and then manage to get a policeman (Mizen) on his own for long enough to invent a policeman already at the scene who sent you and this other man to fetch assistance. You then proceed to work having avoided giving any identifying details. A result, I think you'll agree.

The problem I have with Fish's favoured scenario is that Lechmere would be coming forward to identify himself, not only as the first man to find the body (and therefore potentially the last man to be with her while she was alive), but crucially as someone who told a blatant and provable lie to the first policeman he came across - because the truth was bound to come out and it was very different. Paul knew there was no copper at the scene, and Lechmere knew that he knew. Furthermore, Paul had just blabbed to the papers and could easily blab again, with no suggestion that a copper had been there and sent them to fetch Mizen. Lechmere also knew that it would inevitably emerge that no copper in Buck's Row had seen him or Paul there, confirming Paul's account, but exposing himself as a man who had lied to a police officer shortly after the murder.

Now imagine coming foward in this situation, using a name you have not been known by since your youth, fully aware that you will be forced to lie through your teeth again and deny telling Mizen you were sent by another copper, even though Mizen knows that's exactly what you told him and now knows it was a damned lie.

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that Mizen, or his superiors, would have left it there, had he been so deliberately and cynically lied to by such a crucial witness in this murder case. Nor do I believe that the killer would have come forward and identified himself in such circumstances, seemingly unconcerned about his bogus copper coming back to haunt him.

Love,

Caz
X

[Lechmere]

Caz
It has been suggested that Paul didn't hear the Lechmere- Mizen exchange as he may have been out of earshot. I wont go back through that aspect of this.
It seems that the discrepancy between Mizen's account of the conversation and Charles Lechmere's (in the guise of Cross) was not picked up on - innocent or guilty. I get the impression that by this stage the coroner was a little exasperated at the inconsistencies and inefficiencies exposed in the police accounts and so let it pass.
Could Charles Lechmere have known this? No - but if he did it he would probably have been a psychopath used to unblinkingly lying and being believed.
That caz is the nature of the type of person we are probably dealing with , whether it is this suspect or another.

[Lechmere]

I would add that although Charles Levhmere had only been living in the area for two and a half months, it was long enough - if he were a potential murderer - to have Sussed out the beats at least roughly and if he dud it ge probably passed pc Neil loitering around on Whitechapel road prior to picking ip polly.
In short he could anticipate that Neil would find the body before Mizen particularly as he did not sufficiently alert mizen to the reality of the situation and he noticed mizen continuing to knock up as he continued down Hanbury street - after Paul who seems to have avoided lingering around mizen.
This allowed him to use the cover that mizen was wanted by another policeman.
But you may prefer to conject that mizen misheard him or invented this bit of his testimony.