The Mizen scam

[Monty]

My real name is D..... Roy
My most common nickname is DRoy (my friends and co-workers all call me that)
Other nicknames: D, DRock, Babe (don't ask), etc
My brother calls me Brother
I call myself DJ Mixmaster D when I'm cranking tunes at a party
Being adopted, my last name was formerly Dancey

If I were ever asked by a policeman what my name was...it would be what my legal name is which is D..... Roy. If I were to testify in court, I would swear my name as D..... Roy.

...unless I was the one in trouble or trying to hide something

And that's you DRoy,

However you cannot make judgement on others based solely on what DRoy would do.

Monty

[Jenni Shelden]

Can I ask what is a probable dumb ass question? In LVP, obviously the police would investigate suspects and victims and get to know their alias's if they could eg through friends, hence Long Liz and so on, but in terms of witnesses, surely they didnt go to this length unless they needed to (eg a witness going awol)?? BTW this is a question not a statement. So they could possibly have learnt of witnesses aliais's because they were told. What would be their natural reaction to being asked their name and why was it needed - eg they would need to be locatable again. Hence perhaps Mrs Long told her name was Long aka Durrell. Wheras Mr Cross aka Lechmere said his name was Mr Cross ?????????

[Abby Normal]

This thread delivers!

[Cogidubnus]

Antietam

Sorry...it's probably hugely irreverent, but this thread reminds me so much of Sharpsburg...in that it's dreadfully bloody but ultimately so hugely irrelevant...

All the best

Dave

[Abby Normal]

Exactly Simon,

It was fairly common for the period.

The point is Cross was obviously known and contactable.

The name is completely irrelevant.

Monty

Hi Monty
if I met you at a cocktail party and told you my name was Joe Crow and then later you found out that my drivers license said Joe Kinnamon would you think that it was "completely irrelevant"? Or would you say wtf and try to figure it out?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fisherman,

Like so many other documents Cross's original witness statement has not survived, so it is impossible to say whether or not it was headed "Charles A. Cross alias Lechmere."

Regards,

Simon

[Abby Normal]

Sorry...it's probably hugely irreverent, but this thread reminds me so much of Sharpsburg...in that it's dreadfully bloody but ultimately so hugely irrelevant...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave
You were at Sharpsburg? Where are you from?

[DRoy]

Hi Monty
if I met you at a cocktail party and told you my name was Joe Crow and then later you found out that my drivers license said Joe Kinnamon would you think that it was "completely irrelevant"? Or would you say wtf and try to figure it out?

Thank you! I'll give up my Monty "quote of the day" for this example! Haha this made me laugh

That being said, I must admit that if I ever met any of you and had the luxery of sharing a pint or two...it would be difficult to know you by your real names and not your Casebook alias names!

[Cogidubnus]

Sorry...it's probably hugely irreverent, but this thread reminds me so much of Sharpsburg...in that it's dreadfully bloody but ultimately so hugely irrelevant...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave
You were at Sharpsburg? Where are you from?

Is there something ambivalent about what I actually did say?

No...

Goodnight

Dave

[Lechmere]

Caz
If you want to run with the notion that the police sometimes dutifully took note of aliases - and recorded them - and sometimes (the same policeman) couldn't be bothered or thought it superfluous, then don't let me stop you.
I am quite happy to run with the notion that where they knew an alias they recorded it. And if Cross's missing witness statement said he was really called Lechmere, then the existing reports that mention him would also mention his alternative name (and of course they don't).
I know which of the two options disinterested non 'Ripper' people would find more convincing.
I also know that disinterested non Ripper people would raise an eyebrow at the whole name swop business - given that there is no explanation for if. Sure innocent proposals can be given, just as guilty ones can - that just takes a modicum of imagination.
However if a policeman investigating this matter became aware of it and just shrugged and said 'oh well I have an address' then he should be confined to directing traffic. The police then didn't have access to personal records at the click of a mouse.
We know he gave a name that he never ever is known to have used and no
other blood relative is known to have used. We have (and counting) 80 or so instances where he used Lechmere as his family name.
His long dead step father Thomas Cross hadn't even been old enough to be his father. His mum remarried a toy boy.
His family was well established. His distant cousin was a Tory MP - a close cousin ran big estates in Herdfordshire.
One of his great uncles served with Nelson and ended up as Rear Admiral of the Blue.
He had a name he would have been proud of.
So why opt for Cross?
At the very least it is odd. Anyone to say otherwise needs to take a reality check.
When you are spotted by a dead body without having raised the alarm.
When your own account compared to that of the person who spots you leaves 8 minutes unaccounted for.
When you leave the body unattended.
When a policeman claims you misled them when you met them a short time later.
When other bodies turn up on your route to work.
And for some strange reason you gave a name that we cannot five a trace of him using then is this or is this not grounds for suspicion?
Some on here think not - they would wave such a person on and wish them Good day.

[Lechmere]

Abbey
I think he was referring to the Battle of Antietem in the American Civil War.
I don't know why.

[Lechmere]

Monty
I only just caught up on the posts where you laid bare your hostility to 'suspectology' - I sympathise in many ways. It is something of a parlour game - but it is one many 'Old Guardistas' engage in.
If it is any solace to you, the Cross/Lechmere theory has brought to light the exact sequence of events surrounding the discovery of Polly's body - this aspect of the case is usually glossed over. Also the police **** ups involved at this early stage if the investigation. That is whether you think Cross did it or not.

On another note - getting an insight into those 'Old Guard' tut-tugging pms would be fascinating. Do they say 'don't rise to the bait Monty, ignore the newbie fools', or 'Monty, I don't know how you can control yourself while debating with those idiots'.
Am I warm?

[Cogidubnus]

I think he was referring to the Battle of Antietem in the American Civil War.
I don't know why.

I thought it was clear enough. Sharpsburg was a particularly bitterly fought battle in which Robert E Lee fought Hooker's armies to a total standstill...then retreated back whence he came...Even Lee subsequently admitted it was all pretty pointless...remind you somewhat of this thread?

All the best

Dave

(PS And yes I know Lincoln used Antietam as a hook upon which to hang his emancipation legislation...but Shapsburg or no Sharpsburg, he'd have found that hook somewhere!)

[Lechmere]

I prefer:
'They are coming on in the same old style and we will drive them back in the same old style'.
Wellington at Waterloo before defeating the Old Guard.

[Mr Lucky]

[QUOTE=Cogidubnus;232666]I thought it was clear enough. Sharpsburg was a particularly bitterly fought battle in which Robert E Lee fought Hooker's armies to a total standstill...then retreated back whence he came...Even Lee subsequently admitted it was all pretty pointless...remind you somewhat of this thread?QUOTE]

No, some of us have a long standing and genuine interest in the Bucks Row murder and haven't found the thread 'pointless' at all.