Leather Apron - Let's re-examine the facts

[seanr]

I was wondering, was there ever any actual evidence against 'Leather Apron', whoever he was? Or was the case against 'Leather Apron' never really more than just rumours?

The police clearly took it seriously and followed up on the suspicions against 'Leather Apron', but they really have any reason to do so, other than public opinion?

not as the ripper

I conclude broadly the same, from the documents we have there was no direct information seeming to connect Leather Apron to the crimes, but that's the point of my question, really. The police took the Leather Apron connection seriously enough to make enquiries and one arrest (possibly two if we include Ischenschmid). Yet without any actual evidence linking Leather Apron to the crimes, they might as well have been chasing the bogeyman for it.
Either there was something more than this, the police were taking a wild stab in the dark or they prioritised satisfying public opinion over following credible leads. Perhaps there was something more...

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=seanr;n703255]I was wondering, was there ever any actual evidence against 'Leather Apron', whoever he was? Or was the case against 'Leather Apron' never really more than just rumours?

The police clearly took it seriously and followed up on the suspicions against 'Leather Apron', but they really have any reason to do so, other than public opinion?[/QUOTE

not as the ripper

[seanr]

I was wondering, was there ever any actual evidence against 'Leather Apron', whoever he was? Or was the case against 'Leather Apron' never really more than just rumours?

The police clearly took it seriously and followed up on the suspicions against 'Leather Apron', but they really have any reason to do so, other than public opinion?

[seanr]

I think its entirely possible that Mr I was the killer in Hanbury Street, and the wild bloodied man seen in the pub down the road that morning.....and, as such, likely the killer of Polly too...considering the many similar characteristics of those 2 murders. I also think that would make him this "Jack" fellow people keep referring to, because it seems to me the established pattern and the similarities we see in these consecutive murders ends with C3. A "ripper" didn't kill Liz, and that's just based on the same filters we would use on the priors.

If that is accurate, then there is your answer why the murders attributed to a wild killer at large suddenly stopped..he was institutionalized before Stride is killed. One wonders...was Lawende was taken to see Isenschmid for an ID? Maybe at some neutral location?

Lawende was almost certainly not taken to identify Jacob Isenschmid. As Isenschmid's whereabouts were known at the time of Catherine Eddowes murder. He had been confined to Grove Hall Lunatic Asylum after his arrest.
As far as I can tell, the suspicion that had fallen upon Isenschmid was quietly dropped after the 'double event'. Prior to that, the police had been hoping to arrange an identity parade so Mrs Fiddymont and others could pick him out as the man they saw. The doctor at the asylum prevented the identification from taking place and the investigation seems to have stalled.

Isenschmid's wife gave a statement saying that Isenschmid was fond of other women and had the nickname 'the mad butcher'.

Could Isenschmid be the more wild 'Leather Apron'?

[Michael W Richards]

When Jacob Isenschmid came under suspicion of being the murderer, one of the reasons being that he had told a number of ladies in the Holloway area that he was 'Leather Apron'. Isenschmid was a butcher, so may have had a leather apron. I wonder if actually the ladies were in fact the local prostitutes and they had their own 'Leather Apron' in Isenschmid or if Isenschmid perhaps genuinely believed he was the 'Leather Apron' of Whitechapel (a neighbourhood there's definitely some evidence he visited) - even if he wasn't the murderer.

I think its entirely possible that Mr I was the killer in Hanbury Street, and the wild bloodied man seen in the pub down the road that morning.....and, as such, likely the killer of Polly too...considering the many similar characteristics of those 2 murders. I also think that would make him this "Jack" fellow people keep referring to, because it seems to me the established pattern and the similarities we see in these consecutive murders ends with C3. A "ripper" didn't kill Liz, and that's just based on the same filters we would use on the priors.

If that is accurate, then there is your answer why the murders attributed to a wild killer at large suddenly stopped..he was institutionalized before Stride is killed. One wonders...was Lawende was taken to see Isenschmid for an ID? Maybe at some neutral location?

[Busy Beaver]

Maybe Piser/Pizer part-took in the drug scene of the day and that made his behaviour seem rather bizarre to those who knew him.

[Joshua Rogan]

The Scotsman (?) carried an interview with a publican who knew Pizer. He described him as a wastrel who was ‘fond of the company of women’ and who habitually wore his apron whether he was in or out of work.

On the other hand, the Star 6th Sept carries the views of Mike, the Grocer;

"He knows "Leather Apron" very well, and has known him for six years. He says that THE MAN IS UNQUESTIONABLY MAD,
and that anybody who met him face to face would know it. That his eyes are never still, but are always shifting uneasily, and he never looks anybody in the eye."

I don't recall any of the press describing Piser this way. Sounds more like the man who accosted Richardson when he was with a journalist, but I can't seem to find that report at the moment.

[Darryl Kenyon]

When somewhat thinking about 'Leather Apron', I was struck by the name 'Mondeo Man' that the street walkers in Ipswich reputedly used to refer to Steve Wright. Only in the way that it identified a client by something easily recognisable about a punter, perhaps to identify someone in conversation when the women didn't really know the man's name.

If this was the case then it's perfectly plausible that Pizer didn't know he was 'Leather Apron'. Leather Aprons may have been relatively common and so its also plausible that there was more than one 'Leather Apron'.

When Jacob Isenschmid came under suspicion of being the murderer, one of the reasons being that he had told a number of ladies in the Holloway area that he was 'Leather Apron'. Isenschmid was a butcher, so may have had a leather apron. I wonder if actually the ladies were in fact the local prostitutes and they had their own 'Leather Apron' in Isenschmid or if Isenschmid perhaps genuinely believed he was the 'Leather Apron' of Whitechapel (a neighbourhood there's definitely some evidence he visited) - even if he wasn't the murderer.

I agree Sean. Whitechapel being what it was in 1888 and the notorious reputation of some of the streets, plus the sheer amount of unfortunate women in the area. I am sure there would have been more than one person who ill used the poor women, and who they thought may have been leather apron. So the stories would have escalated and encompassed more than one Jew.
Having said that I am sure some of these stories did mean Pizer and Thicke was sincere.

[jerryd]

2) IF PIZER WASN'T LEATHER APRON, WHO WAS?

Are there other Leather Apron 'suspects' who were named as 'Leather Apron'?

Julius Lipman.

[seanr]

When somewhat thinking about 'Leather Apron', I was struck by the name 'Mondeo Man' that the street walkers in Ipswich reputedly used to refer to Steve Wright. Only in the way that it identified a client by something easily recognisable about a punter, perhaps to identify someone in conversation when the women didn't really know the man's name.

If this was the case then it's perfectly plausible that Pizer didn't know he was 'Leather Apron'. Leather Aprons may have been relatively common and so its also plausible that there was more than one 'Leather Apron'.

When Jacob Isenschmid came under suspicion of being the murderer, one of the reasons being that he had told a number of ladies in the Holloway area that he was 'Leather Apron'. Isenschmid was a butcher, so may have had a leather apron. I wonder if actually the ladies were in fact the local prostitutes and they had their own 'Leather Apron' in Isenschmid or if Isenschmid perhaps genuinely believed he was the 'Leather Apron' of Whitechapel (a neighbourhood there's definitely some evidence he visited) - even if he wasn't the murderer.

[The Baron]

lol-you forgot hyam hyams and Jacob levy

I don't think any of those 2 had anything to do with the murders.

The Baron

[Abby Normal]

Lipski, Kosminski, Cohen, Kaminsky, and Leather Apron, are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

The Baron

lol-you forgot hyam hyams and Jacob levy

[The Baron]

Thanks guys for the replies. I also find interesting that Martin Fido also found that Piser didn't match the personality or nature of the 'Leather Apron' that the street walkers described, and Fido believed that his suspect David Cohen was actually the "real" Leather Apron...

Lipski, Kosminski, Cohen, Kaminsky, and Leather Apron, are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

I think they were a gang, who committed the whitechapel murders.

The Baron

[Danny Spence]

Thanks guys for the replies. I also find interesting that Martin Fido also found that Piser didn't match the personality or nature of the 'Leather Apron' that the street walkers described, and Fido believed that his suspect David Cohen was actually the "real" Leather Apron...

[Michael W Richards]

Evening Standard, Sept 11..."His mother and his sister in law declared positively that Piser came home at half past ten o'clock on Thursday night, and had not left the house since. They further stated that the prisoner was unable to do much work on account of ill health, and that he was by no means strong, as some time ago he was seriously injured. About six weeks ago he left a convalescent home, in which he had been an inmate on account of a carbuncle in his neck. He is a Jew, about 35 years of age, and since he was three years old has been brought up by Mrs. Piser. Several residents in Mulberry street, which is a narrow thoroughfare off Commercial street East, give the man who has been arrested a good character, and speak of him as being a harmless sort of person. A young women residing next door said she had known Piser as a neighbour for many years, and had never heard of his bearing the name of "Leather Apron." He had always seemed a quiet man, and unlikely to do any such crime as that of which the police suspect him".

When one considers that when Piser stated he was Leather Apron it might have more to do with the fact that the police interrupted an Inquest to clear him of any suspicion than an admission of a suspected identity. He was in fear for his safety at the time, so why wouldn't he agree to the moniker when its clear the police sought to clear him of suspicion.

Piser himself, added to the opinions above, at times denounced the idea that he was Leather Apron, he had never heard himself called that....so..his family, some neighbors and the "accused" himself were of the opinion he was not Leather Apron,...a person of interest based only on a soggy apron found in Hanbury and some streetwalkers assertion they were accosted by someone they "knew" by that name. Suspicions by Thicke are hardly condemnation material.