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Leather Apron - Let's re-examine the facts

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  • Leather Apron - Let's re-examine the facts

    Leather Apron - lets re-examine the facts. Despite knowing the case of JtR well, I have NEVER really known the full details and insight into the whole Leather Apron 'scare' and all information that there is to know concerning this character that seems almost as much shrouded in mystery as the killer himself. We know that the press turned the stories of Leather Apron into somewhat of a 'monster', so to speak. They painted this picture of this horrible character that stalked the streets, murdering and terrifying the whores of Whitechapel, but this is nearing on fictional. So, I wanted to start this discussion for the purpose of getting to know the truth about this shady shadow.

    1) WAS PIZER EVER CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN TO BE LEATHER APRON?

    Is there evidence Pizer was the man who walked the streets abusing women? He denied this and didn't seem to be of the character described by the women. It seems to me that the only reason he was ever really suspected of being this persona was because he wore an apron and Thicke's rather dodgy accounts.

    2) IF PIZER WASN'T LEATHER APRON, WHO WAS?

    Are there other Leather Apron 'suspects' who were named as 'Leather Apron'?

    3) WERE THERE STORIES OF LEATHER APRON PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF THE MAIN MURDERS?

    What was the first ever mention or account of 'Leather Apron', or of a man abusing the women? Was this pre-murders, or did the name and stories only come to light after the murder of Nichols. If so, how soon before the Autumn of Terror did these stories circulate?

    4) WHAT OCCUPATIONS IN THE EAST END REQUIRED THE WORKER TO WEAR A LEATHER APRON?

    By looking at who in the East End would have worn an apron, maybe we can narrow down just who may have been Leather Apron...
    Last edited by Danny Spence; 03-04-2019, 01:37 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Danny Spence View Post
    Leather Apron - lets re-examine the facts. Despite knowing the case of JtR well, I have NEVER really known the full details and insight into the whole Leather Apron 'scare' and all information that there is to know concerning this character that seems almost as much shrouded in mystery as the killer himself. We know that the press turned the stories of Leather Apron into somewhat of a 'monster', so to speak. They painted this picture of this horrible character that stalked the streets, murdering and terrifying the whores of Whitechapel, but this is nearing on fictional. So, I wanted to start this discussion for the purpose of getting to know the truth about this shady shadow.

    1) WAS PIZER EVER CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN TO BE LEATHER APRON?

    Is there evidence Pizer was the man who walked the streets abusing women? He denied this and didn't seem to be of the character described by the women. It seems to me that the only reason he was ever really suspected of being this persona was because he wore an apron and Thicke's rather dodgy accounts.

    2) IF PIZER WASN'T LEATHER APRON, WHO WAS?

    Are there other Leather Apron 'suspects' who were named as 'Leather Apron'?

    3) WERE THERE STORIES OF LEATHER APRON PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF THE MAIN MURDERS?

    What the first ever mention or account of 'Leather Apron', or of a man abusing the women? Was this pre-murders, or did the name only come to light after the murder of Nichols. If so, how soon before the Autumn of Terror did these stories circulate?

    4) WHAT OCCUPATIONS IN THE EAST END REQUIRED THE WORKER TO WEAR A LEATHER APRON?

    By looking at who in the East End would worn an apron, maybe we can narrow down just who may have been Leather Apron...

    hi Danny
    Thicke knew him well and knew he was Leather Apron and Pizer himself admitted he was during the inquest. case closed IMHO.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

      hi Danny
      Thicke knew him well and knew he was Leather Apron and Pizer himself admitted he was during the inquest. case closed IMHO.
      Couldn’t agree more, Abby.

      Let’s not forget where the name originated: among the lodging house women. Pizer was reportedly confronted by some women on Church Street and one of them called him LA over 20 times. Pizer initially denied knowing the woman, but then admitted she continually bothered him. I’d be very surprised if that ‘bothering’ didn’t involve calling him out as LA.

      That his family were unaware of the nickname he had in the seedy lodging houses he frequented in no way argues against his being so called outside the family environment.

      The Scotsman (?) carried an interview with a publican who knew Pizer. He described him as a wastrel who was ‘fond of the company of women’ and who habitually wore his apron whether he was in or out of work.






      Comment


      • #4
        So the "fluffy" slipper maker wasn't really "fluffy" at all then.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Busy Beaver View Post
          So the "fluffy" slipper maker wasn't really "fluffy" at all then.
          nor was he rippy
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #6
            Evening Standard, Sept 11..."His mother and his sister in law declared positively that Piser came home at half past ten o'clock on Thursday night, and had not left the house since. They further stated that the prisoner was unable to do much work on account of ill health, and that he was by no means strong, as some time ago he was seriously injured. About six weeks ago he left a convalescent home, in which he had been an inmate on account of a carbuncle in his neck. He is a Jew, about 35 years of age, and since he was three years old has been brought up by Mrs. Piser. Several residents in Mulberry street, which is a narrow thoroughfare off Commercial street East, give the man who has been arrested a good character, and speak of him as being a harmless sort of person. A young women residing next door said she had known Piser as a neighbour for many years, and had never heard of his bearing the name of "Leather Apron." He had always seemed a quiet man, and unlikely to do any such crime as that of which the police suspect him".

            When one considers that when Piser stated he was Leather Apron it might have more to do with the fact that the police interrupted an Inquest to clear him of any suspicion than an admission of a suspected identity. He was in fear for his safety at the time, so why wouldn't he agree to the moniker when its clear the police sought to clear him of suspicion.

            Piser himself, added to the opinions above, at times denounced the idea that he was Leather Apron, he had never heard himself called that....so..his family, some neighbors and the "accused" himself were of the opinion he was not Leather Apron,...a person of interest based only on a soggy apron found in Hanbury and some streetwalkers assertion they were accosted by someone they "knew" by that name. Suspicions by Thicke are hardly condemnation material.
            Michael Richards

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks guys for the replies. I also find interesting that Martin Fido also found that Piser didn't match the personality or nature of the 'Leather Apron' that the street walkers described, and Fido believed that his suspect David Cohen was actually the "real" Leather Apron...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Danny Spence View Post
                Thanks guys for the replies. I also find interesting that Martin Fido also found that Piser didn't match the personality or nature of the 'Leather Apron' that the street walkers described, and Fido believed that his suspect David Cohen was actually the "real" Leather Apron...
                Lipski, Kosminski, Cohen, Kaminsky, and Leather Apron, are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

                I think they were a gang, who committed the whitechapel murders.

                The Baron
                Last edited by The Baron; 03-04-2019, 08:58 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Baron View Post

                  Lipski, Kosminski, Cohen, Kaminsky, and Leather Apron, are the men that will not be blamed for nothing.

                  The Baron
                  lol-you forgot hyam hyams and Jacob levy
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                    lol-you forgot hyam hyams and Jacob levy
                    I don't think any of those 2 had anything to do with the murders.

                    The Baron

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When somewhat thinking about 'Leather Apron', I was struck by the name 'Mondeo Man' that the street walkers in Ipswich reputedly used to refer to Steve Wright. Only in the way that it identified a client by something easily recognisable about a punter, perhaps to identify someone in conversation when the women didn't really know the man's name.

                      If this was the case then it's perfectly plausible that Pizer didn't know he was 'Leather Apron'. Leather Aprons may have been relatively common and so its also plausible that there was more than one 'Leather Apron'.

                      When Jacob Isenschmid came under suspicion of being the murderer, one of the reasons being that he had told a number of ladies in the Holloway area that he was 'Leather Apron'. Isenschmid was a butcher, so may have had a leather apron. I wonder if actually the ladies were in fact the local prostitutes and they had their own 'Leather Apron' in Isenschmid or if Isenschmid perhaps genuinely believed he was the 'Leather Apron' of Whitechapel (a neighbourhood there's definitely some evidence he visited) - even if he wasn't the murderer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Danny Spence View Post

                        2) IF PIZER WASN'T LEATHER APRON, WHO WAS?

                        Are there other Leather Apron 'suspects' who were named as 'Leather Apron'?
                        Julius Lipman.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seanr View Post
                          When somewhat thinking about 'Leather Apron', I was struck by the name 'Mondeo Man' that the street walkers in Ipswich reputedly used to refer to Steve Wright. Only in the way that it identified a client by something easily recognisable about a punter, perhaps to identify someone in conversation when the women didn't really know the man's name.

                          If this was the case then it's perfectly plausible that Pizer didn't know he was 'Leather Apron'. Leather Aprons may have been relatively common and so its also plausible that there was more than one 'Leather Apron'.

                          When Jacob Isenschmid came under suspicion of being the murderer, one of the reasons being that he had told a number of ladies in the Holloway area that he was 'Leather Apron'. Isenschmid was a butcher, so may have had a leather apron. I wonder if actually the ladies were in fact the local prostitutes and they had their own 'Leather Apron' in Isenschmid or if Isenschmid perhaps genuinely believed he was the 'Leather Apron' of Whitechapel (a neighbourhood there's definitely some evidence he visited) - even if he wasn't the murderer.
                          I agree Sean. Whitechapel being what it was in 1888 and the notorious reputation of some of the streets, plus the sheer amount of unfortunate women in the area. I am sure there would have been more than one person who ill used the poor women, and who they thought may have been leather apron. So the stories would have escalated and encompassed more than one Jew.
                          Having said that I am sure some of these stories did mean Pizer and Thicke was sincere.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                            The Scotsman (?) carried an interview with a publican who knew Pizer. He described him as a wastrel who was ‘fond of the company of women’ and who habitually wore his apron whether he was in or out of work.
                            On the other hand, the Star 6th Sept carries the views of Mike, the Grocer;

                            "He knows "Leather Apron" very well, and has known him for six years. He says that THE MAN IS UNQUESTIONABLY MAD,
                            and that anybody who met him face to face would know it. That his eyes are never still, but are always shifting uneasily, and he never looks anybody in the eye."

                            I don't recall any of the press describing Piser this way. Sounds more like the man who accosted Richardson when he was with a journalist, but I can't seem to find that report at the moment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maybe Piser/Pizer part-took in the drug scene of the day and that made his behaviour seem rather bizarre to those who knew him.

                              Comment

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