Jack: Suffering from a brain disease?

[Scott Nelson]

Look at the mutilations...pure rage in combination with psychopathy.

[mpriestnall]

My view of Jack is that did not suffer a brain disease or at least there is no evidence for it.

I would say he would appear to others as perfectly normal, to his family, to work colleagues, and to the world at large.

I would say it was highly likely he was a psychopath though, and his murder spree was triggered by situational reasons e.g. to suppress a scandal.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Is it possible that Jack suffered from a brain disease? I do not mean this to mean mental illness such as schizophrenia, but instead, that perhaps Jack had a disease which had begun to effect his brain, which caused the murders. Perhaps, for example, advanced Syphilis

The medical and forensic evidence suggest that the murderer was asexual, not syphilitic.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Isn't siphyllus or w.e. also an STD? And didn't he go after hookers? Could be pissed if he thought he got it from a hooker.

Though the crimes are realllllly typical serial killer-ish not like simply anger attacks coz he's mad about a disease. E.g. the bizarre eyelid carvings and stuff, increasing brutality and/or frequency with each attack...

I also wonder if hookers would even service men with certain conditions. Damages their livelihood to catch anything like that. Seems this dude managed to convince them to come with him presumably for sexual services.

[DJA]

Lead (and mercury, I think) is never eliminated by the body, and will often end up causing brain damage.

Many of us oldies have a lot of tetra ethyl lead from petrol constantly recirculating in our bodies.

Mercury from coal fires has entered the environment in a big way.
Think of the London smog in the 1880s.

I cannot eat any seafood in safety.
Any mercury upsets my strep and it reacts with Hydrogen Sulphide which is a body toxin.

[DJA]

To DJA

It's debatable as to wether I experience sleeping difficulties. I don't have that many nights of uninterrupted sleep however I usually go to bed during the early hours of the morning and find it sometimes difficult to sleep at more sociable hours for example before midnight.

Cheers John

Pretty much as I expected.

Much the same.
CFS courtesy of a Peptostreptococcus infection acquired in 1982.
31% of my gut flora.

Borderline gluten intolerant according to an IG test.Not sure about casein.
Borderline glucose intolerant.
Adrenal glands are shot.
Heart.
Cognitive difficulties....when tired......like 23.5 hours a day

Three benzos last night. 4.5 hours sleep.Still waking up.

Was that a double negative.....don't......uninterrupted......

So you could be up at 4am ?
Startled easily by overbearing people at that hour?

Depression?

[DJA]

Not a critic, but an observation:

I think the OP is looking for a brain disease, or a medical condition, that would create some degeneration, explaining why the murders stopped after MJK.

While Asperger's is an interesting topic, and was certainly brought up a lot in some recent North American spree killings, it wouldn't make the killer stop after MJK. And we're back to square one.

If,as a Nun from the Refuge reported,Mary Ann Kelly was the cause of it all then her death put an end to the murders.

[Errata]

Aspergers' Syndrome, like schizophrenia, is quite possibly a socially/medical constructed condition, as evidenced by an absence of bio-medical support. It may therefore be a label attached to individuals who are deemed to have deviated from social norms.

As Molloy and Vasil postulate, "Does AS define a condition that exists 'out there' in a reality that is beyond language and the network of social and political forces involved in the process of defining normal and abnormal behaviour.?" (Molloy and Vasil, The Social Construction of Asperger Syndrome: The Pathologizing of Difference?, Disability and Society, vol 17, No 6, 2002, pp.659-669.)

Or as Allen Frances, the chair of the DSM IV puts it, "Fifty years of subsequent research confirms the DSM is no more than a catalogue of syndromes-social constructs, not diseases." See:http://m.anp.sagepub.com/content/48/11/1067.extract

Well, of course everything is a construct, because we have no idea what is going on in there other than what the patient can report. It took them 20 years to convince me I was Bipolar because I have an odd type not really described in the DSM.

How many of these are actually diseases? How many are disorders? And remember that psychiatry has no ability to identify or treat "social" diseases. If something is off in the way you deal with people, but your brain scans are clean, psychiatry has nothing. It's why the social aspects of the autism spectrum disorders are so hard. It's why there are Axis II disorders. And it's why psychopathy and sociopathy are both ill defined, and not diagnoses in the DSM. The DSM is the best tool we have for diagnosis and identification, but everyone knows it's a flawed tool. It's one of the last branches of medicine where diagnosis can only come from description, and not examination. There is nothing to examine. Nothing to poke at, no pictures to take, no labs to draw except to monitor medication. Occasionally you get lucky and something observable actually exists. But brain science is so far behind that psychiatrists don't have what every other kind of doctor has. Independent confirmation.

Dr. Frances is a bit of burn out case. Well earned, make no mistake. But his point is that while there are some imperfect tools, a psychiatrist is on his own when it comes to determining the best treatment for his patient. There are guidelines when it comes to a DSM diagnosis, but the patient may not respond at all to that. Every shrink out there is doing the best they can with what they have. But they don't have much at all. He argues that it is getting easier to potentially label normal emotion as a disorder. And he's right. Unfortunately, barring an whole other book the size of the DSM devoted exclusively to exclusions (which is impractical, and also ill advised) There's not much they can do except stay alert. The solution is to bring the biological science of psychiatry up to the same level as observation. Which can take decades. Which might be impossible. But that's the solution.

To lurch back on topic, if I was looking for a brain disease in Jack, I would look either at certain toxins or something related to brain injury. Which is ridiculously common by the way, and even more so back then. It can't be a brain disease that messes with dexterity, and most do, so that takes a lot of things off the board. But something like TBI or CTE cause behavioral changes, sometimes violent, and have a high rate of suicide. Paranoia, sudden rage, inability to emotionally regulate, obsessive behavior are all reported with these injuries. It has created killers, though to be fair it has not to my knowledge created serial killers. Something else would have to be present, but the disinhibition caused by the injury may be just enough to let loose someone who was only barely under control. And because the behavioral problems are due to an injury, the people in his life were more likely to forgive and explain away anything they saw that might be strange. People forgive injuries when they don't forgive diseases. Had he been schizophrenic it would not have protected him. Having had his skull cracked would have. People apologize for your behavior for a head injury.

[John Wheat]

I am experiencing problems posting.

It is 2 am and I am turning in.

Will get back to you.

One question....as an Aspie,do you experience sleeping difficulties?

To DJA

It's debatable as to wether I experience sleeping difficulties. I don't have that many nights of uninterrupted sleep however I usually go to bed during the early hours of the morning and find it sometimes difficult to sleep at more sociable hours for example before midnight.

Cheers John

[SirJohnFalstaff]

It's certainly possible. It was the height of the industrialization of the country, and there were zero safety laws. (...)Women were eating lead to improve their complexions (...)

I didn't know that. That is quite interesting.

Lead (and mercury, I think) is never eliminated by the body, and will often end up causing brain damage.
The Romans aristocracy used lead for a lot cookware and utensils. The disease is called Saturnisme in French, and is believed to be the of cause many of the mentally unstable leaders at the end of the Empire.

[John Wheat]

Aspergers' Syndrome, like schizophrenia, is quite possibly a socially/medical constructed condition, as evidenced by an absence of bio-medical support. It may therefore be a label attached to individuals who are deemed to have deviated from social norms.

http://m.anp.sagepub.com/content/48/11/1067.extract

To John G

Firstly do you mean Aspergers Syndrome or Autism in general? Most experts believe they are one and the same. Secondly having Autism Spectrum Disorder(I'll use the current terminology) and knowing several others on the Autism Spectrum plus having been treated by a number of Britain's most knowledgeable practitioners in the Autism field I can say with absolute certainty that Aspergers Syndrome is not a socially/medical constructed condition.

Cheers John

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Not a critic, but an observation:

I think the OP is looking for a brain disease, or a medical condition, that would create some degeneration, explaining why the murders stopped after MJK.

While Asperger's is an interesting topic, and was certainly brought up a lot in some recent North American spree killings, it wouldn't make the killer stop after MJK. And we're back to square one.

[DJA]

I am experiencing problems posting.

It is 2 am and I am turning in.

Will get back to you.

One question....as an Aspie,do you experience sleeping difficulties?

[John G]

Crikey!

Not spending the weekend looking for it.

Did mention a Prof with over 20 years experience in my PM.
Also offered help if required.
Obviously not wanted.

Do agree that there are many forms of "Schizophrenia".
Mentioned one type that has a known cause and actually responds to what is basically a pesticide.

Some of the DSMs I've read are a bad joke.
One big con job after another.

Good luck!

To be fair, I don't blame you not wanting to spend the weekend looking up scientific studies! Essentially there are studies which demonstrate that exposure to T.gondii increases the risk of mental illness. However, whilst this is a possible risk factor for developing "schizophrenia", cause and effect cannot be proved. See:http://www.nhs.uk/news/2015/06June/P...zophrenia.aspx

I agree that there are many different forms of what is commonly referred to as schizophrenia, some of which may eventually be found to have biomedical causes. As Frances puts it: " What we call 'schizophrenia' is a heterogeneous grab bag of symptoms and behaviours that overlap bewilderingly with its near neighbours, both with clinical presentation and on biological markers. There will not be one or a group of schizophrenias, but rather a small army of hundreds of different forms of pathogenesis and presentation." See:http://m.anp.sagepub.com/content/48/11/1067.extract

I would also note that, in my opinion, there is a need for a codified system, like the DSM, despite its inherent weaknesses. Thus, without such a publication, how would the mentally ill receive an objective diagnosis, which may then enable them to access treatment, such as medication or psychotherapy, that may help alleviate their symptoms? After all, some mental health conditions are seriously debilitating, whether their causes will eventually be deemed to be psychological or physiological.

[DJA]

Please provide biomedical evidence of this. Please cite authority. As Allen Frances argues, "Schizophrenia is just a name not a thing-a useful social and medical construct..." See:http://m.anp.sagepub.com/content/48/11/1067.extract

By the way, he was the Chair of the DSM IV so I take it he knows what he's talking about.

Crikey!

Not spending the weekend looking for it.

Did mention a Prof with over 20 years experience in my PM.
Also offered help if required.
Obviously not wanted.

Do agree that there are many forms of "Schizophrenia".
Mentioned one type that has a known cause and actually responds to what is basically a pesticide.

Some of the DSMs I've read are a bad joke.
One big con job after another.

Good luck!