Let's narrow down some Ripper 'facts'

[lynn cates]

directions

Hello Malcolm. Of course, the Eddowes' cuts moved upwards whereas the cuts on Nichols and Chapman ran downwards.

Maybe done for variety?

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. Of course, the Eddowes' cuts moved upwards whereas the cuts on Nichols and Chapman ran downwards.

Maybe done for variety?

Cheers.
LC

oh i didn't know that, that's interesting.... but with MJK i suppose we cant tell
why has he changed the direction of cuts......... uuuuuuumm !

[lynn cates]

He?

Hello Malcolm. He? Not the same.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

the lower classes of London were quite illiterate, i'd be surprised if JOE AVERAGE JTR was as literate as he seems, i think he is, but i could be wrong, this is because the Graffiti is extremely well written and very clever too, it's almost poetic.

Malcolm.
You cannot judge the killers literacy based on the fact you think he wrote the GSG. No matter how many might agree, any connection is speculatory.

On the other hand, just because JtR might have resided in a common lodging-house does not mean he was illiterate.
One very interesting series of articles written by George Sims in 1883 demonstrate the mixed multitude of lodgers from all walks of life, some of whom previously occupied a higher status in society.
Howards, JTR Forums.

http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=14129

Post # 10.

"Hundreds of people crowding into a slum have no business there at all. They should be in better neighbourhoods, inhabiting superior houses; but they are people who have fallen on evil times, and become gradually impoverished.
People on a downward track filter through the slums en route for the workhouse.
Come to a common lodging-house and see what class of people fill the beds at 4d a night.
Poor labourers? yes.
Loafers and criminals? yes.
But hundreds of men who have once been in first-class positions, and who have had every chance of doing well, are to be found there also."

Sims goes on to list examples of previously well-to-do men who have fallen onto hard times; a Paymaster of the Royal Navy, two college chums from Cambridge, a Physicians son who was himself a doctor, a Clergyman, a Commercial Traveller, a member of the Stock Exchange, and others.

Regards, Jon S.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Malcolm. Of course, the Eddowes' cuts moved upwards whereas the cuts on Nichols and Chapman ran downwards.

Maybe done for variety?

They moved upwards from Eddowes' perspective, but not necessarily from the killer's.

Mike

[Rya]

They moved upwards from Eddowes' perspective, but not necessarily from the killer's.

Mike

Could one of you explain your grounds for believing that the Eddowes incision went anyway but down, from anyone's perspective? You would be contridicting Brown's testimony if you did--which is fine, but I'd like to hear the rationale.

[Malcolm X]

[QUOTE=Wickerman;206293]Malcolm.
You cannot judge the killers literacy based on the fact you think he wrote the GSG. No matter how many might agree, any connection is speculatory.

.QUOTE]


yea' right, so the graffiti, which means nothing on its own, just happens to be there beside the Apron..... i doubt it.

the clue is :- the graffiti means nothing on it's own....because if you were intending this to be normal street graffiti, then you would have a Subject for reference.

``the jews are the men that wont be blamed for THEIR DEATHS for nothing``

but in reality you see no subject mentioned, because you have the Apron instead.

[Malcolm X]

Could one of you explain your grounds for believing that the Eddowes incision went anyway but down, from anyone's perspective? You would be contridicting Brown's testimony if you did--which is fine, but I'd like to hear the rationale.

plus messing me around as well !

[Malcolm X]

.
if this is JTR, then this reflects intelligence, because it's not as if he can ask someone else to dream up the graffiti for him....... he has to figure this out on his own.

the letters?...... who knows! but if they're from him or one or two are, then if you consider the graffiti, it looks like he's disguising these on purpose to look stupid.

the graffiti is neat, written calmly, no spelling mistakes, clever and finally wickedly poetic !

this is not ``the water in Majorca dont taste like it outa``...... bloody hell i've spelt it wrong

[Malcolm X]

yes people fell on hard times back then, so this is a perfect disguise for JTR.

a once successful person who has fallen on hard times, who visits london in search of work, like so many others.... no not quite, he's disapearing somewhere during the week and pretending to be searching for work/ poor on the weekends, hence he has little proof of ID about him...... maybe !

why has JTR suddenly appeared and started killing, well he has the perfect excuse doesn't he, i've been here searching for work for the past few months, without any luck, i think i'll go home soon, i come from Romford !

[lynn cates]

Phillips

Hello Michael. I was referring to Dr. Phillips' perspective.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

the clue is :- the graffiti means nothing on it's own....because if you were intending this to be normal street graffiti, then you would have a Subject for reference.

The 'Juews' is the subject. In this part of London and in this period the Jews were being blamed for all manner of social ill's. Naturally, as hard working peoples and conscientious about business and family they believed they were wrongly targetted.
In this context, from the perspective of an out-of-work Londoner, the GSG can be interpreted as, The Jews will not take the blame for whatever they do.

You might be surprised just how much East-end business was in Jewish hands. Take for instance the tailoring industry, the Jews were being blamed for driving down the wages of the "sweaters". That if it was not for the Jews the common working man/woman would have a higher standard of living in the East-end. True or not, the GSG is quite consistent with public sentiment in the area.

Regards, Jon S.

[FrankO]

What I suggested stemmed from the discussion about the extent of anatomical knowledge displayed in some of these murders and a suggestion as to how someone who could do what was done here could acquire it. Certainly, this discussion alone, has always been wrought with controversy. And depending on one's bias, the opinions of the contemporary medicos are often configured to fit some conclusion without understanding how it was treated as these events unfolded.

I know where you’re coming from, Hunter, and I quite agree with you. Nichols abdomen were ‘just’ slashed and when only a week later Chapman’s abdomen were cut open, no ‘meaningless cuts’, intestines drawn out and womb taken away, Wynne Baxter and very likely Phillips were trying to make sense of these 2 murders by suggesting they took place with the sole or main purpose of getting a womb and that someone with a medical background had committed them. Then Eddowes was killed & mutilated and I agree that at least some were still looking at this murder from the perspective offered by Baxter & Phillips based on the murders of Nichols and Chapman. At least, that’s why I think Phillips suggested Eddowes may have been done by a different hand.

But if we look directly at the evidence alone- what I stated in the second paragraph- there may be some deductions that are more plausible than others. That the uterus was targeted on three occasion is certain; there's no coincidence here. That someone would have a reason for doing so and know where it is specifically located is also reasonable to me. How this knowledge was acquired could have stemmed from the natural adolescent male's curiosity about the female body. As I said, that curiosity will result in a quest for knowledge to some degree and is fueled by fantasizing. I challenge any heterosexual male to claim that they weren't curious about girls, didn't explore their female characteristics and didn't fantasize about it. There would be no human population if they didn't.

Agreed all around.

All the best,
Frank

[Malcolm X]

The 'Juews' is the subject. In this part of London and in this period the Jews were being blamed for all manner of social ill's. Naturally, as hard working peoples and conscientious about business and family they believed they were wrongly targetted.
In this context, from the perspective of an out-of-work Londoner, the GSG can be interpreted as, The Jews will not take the blame for whatever they do.

You might be surprised just how much East-end business was in Jewish hands. Take for instance the tailoring industry, the Jews were being blamed for driving down the wages of the "sweaters". That if it was not for the Jews the common working man/woman would have a higher standard of living in the East-end. True or not, the GSG is quite consistent with public sentiment in the area.

Regards, Jon S.

yes I agree totally, the East End grew at an alarming rate at the start of the Industrial Revolution, and most of these were immigrants that moved here to find work, either from up north/ Ireland/ Europe, London could not cope with this huge influx of immigrants, they also spread west of the city too, before this.... the early Georgian era, London was still quite a small city.

but for me, we have 3 murders that are linked far too much, by pure suspicion only; to Dutfields yard, the graffiti, anti-semetism, it feels exactly the same as realising that J.Hoffa was abduced and killed by the Mafia, soon after he was released from prison.

what is strange and growing too, is that these 3 murders dont seem that linked to the others, like they once were.... copycat ?...... maybe yes, but starting with L.Stride only.

..

[Malcolm X]

I know where you’re coming from, Hunter, and I quite agree with you. Nichols abdomen were ‘just’ slashed and when only a week later Chapman’s abdomen were cut open, no ‘meaningless cuts’, intestines drawn out and womb taken away, Wynne Baxter and very likely Phillips were trying to make sense of these 2 murders by suggesting they took place with the sole or main purpose of getting a womb and that someone with a medical background had committed them. Then Eddowes was killed & mutilated and I agree that at least some were still looking at this murder from the perspective offered by Baxter & Phillips based on the murders of Nichols and Chapman. At least, that’s why I think Phillips suggested Eddowes may have been done by a different hand.
Agreed all around.

All the best,
Frank

yes but Nichols looks different too, this is maybe an inexperienced JTR though