Soldier Jack?

[curious4]

Hello again all,

I wonder if perhaps JTR could have been a soldier suffering from Post Traumatic Stress - something not recognised at the time. A veteran, perhaps of the Zulu War of 1879, who had seen his comrades cut to pieces, body parts strewn over the battlefield and who had come home angry to find that "whores" were walking the street in perfect freedom, while his mates had been left behind, dead and in pieces.

I wonder if the ritualistic placing of body parts was some attempt to make order of what was, to him, chaos. Chapman, entrails over the right shoulder, same thing with Eddowes, but with a piece of intestine between the left arm and the body and the same thing on the left side of MJK, between the body and arm (the thing at the top is NOT a sleeve but a body part, clearly attached to the piece of intestine, a chemise was either armless or with a small "cap" sleeve similar to the sleeves on girlsī dresses in the 1950s). Also with MJK perhaps significant body parts placed under and round the body.

There you have it - perhaps and idea to toy with.

Best wishes,
C4

"Read not to contradict and refute, nor to believe and take for granted.... but to weigh and consider" Lord Bacon

[Hunter]

There were a lot of people- including healthy young men who didn't serve and the politicians who sent him to the battlefield - walking around in perfect freedom. There seems to be some other reason for the direct targeting of the female characteristics of most of these women.

However, knowing a quick method of dispatch of the victim, the ruthlessness in ending someone's life and the acceptance and the excitement of danger on the killer's part could be indicative of the military experience of someone who's mind was troubled in other ways.

We'll never really know for sure... Lots of theories and lots of possibilities.

[K-453]

I quite agree with Hunter.

For someone with serial killer tendencies, being a soldier could even be an occasion to live out some fantasies - to go man-hunting ...

entrails over the right shoulder

More likely than being arranged there, the entrails were just flung aside while Jack was digging for the thing he wanted.
The right shoulder and above are just the place were they land when someone kneeling next to the waist of the victim throws them aside. It looks like he did not want to get them between his feet, so he threw them into the direction of the victim's head.

[Trevor Marriott]

Well you may be interested to know that Feigenbaum served in the Prussian Army and fought at The Battle of Gravelotte in 1870.

[Wickerman]

I quite agree with Hunter.

For someone with serial killer tendencies, being a soldier could even be an occasion to live out some fantasies - to go man-hunting ...

If the victims had been men, possibly, but as they were women, not the natural challenge for a soldier, I'm not so sure.

Regards, Jon S.

[K-453]

What about all the raping during wars? The cruelties against civilians? Annihilating of whole villages?

[Wickerman]

What about all the raping during wars?

"Jack" did not make merry with his victims, as far as we know.

The cruelties against civilians?

Some say "Jack" gave them a swift send-off, no suffering, hence not cruelty as we generally apply the term.

Annihilating of whole villages?

Genocide was hardly the "Ripper's" style.

Seriously, Tabram may have been murdered by a pair of drunken soldiers, or one by himself, but as for a soldier being a serial killer? On the evidence at hand there's just no indication.
Maybe, maybe not. Because of the range of murders, from April? until November? the soldier must surely have been stationed locally. Like at Wellington Barracks, or the Tower.

That should have been easy to check if the police had considered the possibility, we don't know if hey did.

Regards, Jon s.

[Hunter]

Seriously, Tabram may have been murdered by a pair of drunken soldiers, or one by himself, but as for a soldier being a serial killer? On the evidence at hand there's just no indication.
Maybe, maybe not. Because of the range of murders, from April? until November? the soldier must surely have been stationed locally. Like at Wellington Barracks, or the Tower.
That should have been easy to check if the police had considered the possibility, we don't know if hey did.

The killer would not necessarily have to be an active duty serviceman; a discharged veteran would suffice. More than a few veterans even enlisted in the merchant marine and were sought after by shipping lines for their experience and tolerance for structural discipline.

Well you may be interested to know that Feigenbaum served in the Prussian Army and fought at The Battle of Gravelotte in 1870.

That's very interesting, Trevor. Did he enlist under the surname Zahn?

[Errata]

Actually post traumatic stress in soldiers was pretty well documented by 1888. It was first identified at the turn of the century, well known and documented after the American Civil War. They hadn't figured out that all of the combat stress reactions were related, but they had about as good a handle on it as they did during early WW I. Which is to say, they knew what the problem was, they just didn't have a clue what to do about it. Theres a lovely movie with Johnathan Pryce called Regeneration on the first successful treatment of the problem if it interests you.

If you're looking for a veteran to be Jack the Ripper, I recommend one from King Leopold of Belgium's monsters that he set loose in the Congo Free State.

[Rubyretro]

However, knowing a quick method of dispatch of the victim, the ruthlessness in ending someone's life and the acceptance and the excitement of danger on the killer's part could be indicative of the military experience of someone who's mind was troubled in other ways

.

I agree with Hunter

[Trevor Marriott]

The killer would not necessarily have to be an active duty serviceman; a discharged veteran would suffice. More than a few veterans even enlisted in the merchant marine and were sought after by shipping lines for their experience and tolerance for structural discipline.




That's very interesting, Trevor. Did he enlist under the surname Zahn?

I do not know the answer to that in my opinion the true identity of Feigenbaum has never been fully established. He was convicted and executed under the name Carl Feigenbaum, but as is known amongst other names he used were those of Carl Zahn and Anton Zahn. However Zahn would seem to be the favourite surname based on current research.

[curious4]

Actually post traumatic stress in soldiers was pretty well documented by 1888. It was first identified at the turn of the century, well known and documented after the American Civil War. They hadn't figured out that all of the combat stress reactions were related, but they had about as good a handle on it as they did during early WW I. Which is to say, they knew what the problem was, they just didn't have a clue what to do about it. Theres a lovely movie with Johnathan Pryce called Regeneration on the first successful treatment of the problem if it interests you.

If you're looking for a veteran to be Jack the Ripper, I recommend one from King Leopold of Belgium's monsters that he set loose in the Congo Free State.

Hello Errata,

Interesting - hadnīt heard that before. There was something called shell-shock, which was generally accepted - I worked after school in a private mental home (many, many moons ago) where one of the patients had that diagnosis. ( So long ago that I think I can say this) He was really disturbed and did actually try to kill one of the ward maids, but if you looked and acted fairly normal most of the time Iīm not sure it would have been recognised. Many soldiers were executed on grounds of desertion etc in WW1, I gather, so not really accepted as something tangible.

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. Why not King Leopold himself - he was supposed to have been a horror!

[curious4]

There were a lot of people- including healthy young men who didn't serve and the politicians who sent him to the battlefield - walking around in perfect freedom. There seems to be some other reason for the direct targeting of the female characteristics of most of these women.

However, knowing a quick method of dispatch of the victim, the ruthlessness in ending someone's life and the acceptance and the excitement of danger on the killer's part could be indicative of the military experience of someone who's mind was troubled in other ways.

We'll never really know for sure... Lots of theories and lots of possibilities.

Hello Hunter,

Yes, you have a point there - there must have been some other reason, perhaps a hatred of women. And I was including soldiers who had been discharged.

Best wishes,
C4

[curious4]

I quite agree with Hunter.

For someone with serial killer tendencies, being a soldier could even be an occasion to live out some fantasies - to go man-hunting ...



More likely than being arranged there, the entrails were just flung aside while Jack was digging for the thing he wanted.
The right shoulder and above are just the place were they land when someone kneeling next to the waist of the victim throws them aside. It looks like he did not want to get them between his feet, so he threw them into the direction of the victim's head.

Hello K453,

Why kneeling at waist-level? Somehow I have always imagined him positioned between the legs for easy access. I stick to my claim about the body parts being ritually placed, too much of a coincidence that it was the right shoulder of both, and the piece of intestine between the left arm and the body in both Eddowes and Kelly? When he was given free rein with MJK, he deliberately placed body parts behind her head, between her feet etc etc - it had to be ritualistic.

Best wishes,
C4

[Errata]

Hello Errata,

Interesting - hadnīt heard that before. There was something called shell-shock, which was generally accepted - I worked after school in a private mental home (many, many moons ago) where one of the patients had that diagnosis. ( So long ago that I think I can say this) He was really disturbed and did actually try to kill one of the ward maids, but if you looked and acted fairly normal most of the time Iīm not sure it would have been recognised. Many soldiers were executed on grounds of desertion etc in WW1, I gather, so not really accepted as something tangible.

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. Why not King Leopold himself - he was supposed to have been a horror!

Shell shock is Combat Stress Reaction. Both are short lived forms of PTSD, though PTSD can start with a CSR. Nothing psychiatric was considered "tangible" by mainstream society until maybe the Sixties. And some don't even consider it tangible now. WWI set a new standard of the horrors of warfare. It's really the first war where soldiers started falling apart while still in action. Deserters were of course shot. But more often one day a guy would just go catatonic, or develop hysterical blindness, etc. These soldiers got sent back to the rear for treatment. And they were accused of malingering or faking it, but the military and the medical community realized something was very wrong. Ironically, the guys who fell apart during the war got more support and treatment than those with delayed reactions that cropped up after the war.

In order for these killings to be some kind of PTSD, the method of death and the mutilations have make sense in a combat situation. People who kill because of PTSD are locked into the frame of mind where it is kill or be killed (literally. Their brains have worn pathways to violent solutions towards stress. They actually have to be reprogrammed). So the murders themselves might make sense, but the mutilations less so. Unless he engaged in those acts during combat, in which case that would have been known. That guy would have been noticed during the war, if not by the brass then by his company. So when the murders started, someone would have been reading the paper and thought "Wow. Lester used to do the exact same thing in Africa". These murders might actually make sense for a Vietnam vet. First of all, soldiers committed any number of atrocities out of sheer rage at the enemy, and also humans, especially women, booby trapped themselves. Sometimes err.. intimately. It would make the corpse of a woman a potential threat.

I mean, these guys don't just snap and think they are the King of Greece. They go back to a state of mind that was at one point legitimate. They act as they would have acted during combat. Often they have hallucination or delusions that they are in fact back in combat. But it's a reaction to stress and surprise, and I can't imagine that the only time this guy got triggered was when he was alone with a prostitute.