Who are the mostly likely suspects?

[Malcolm X]

do you know how busy Millers court is from 6am onwards...... uum i'd think again if i was you....it would be way too busy to meet her, enter her room, butcher her and walk out again, without at least 5 or more women seeing you, both going in and leaving.

residents will be washing themselves via the water pump outside her room, or getting water for their kettles etc/ talking to each other

and there you are inside her room carving her up with all that lot going on outside her window, only 10ft away, no i dont think so.

[curious]

Hi Curious and Mal,

If Fleming was responsible for the the murders of Kelly and the others, his "motive" would not have been any different from those of other mutilating serial killers, i.e. purely one of sadoxexual gratification. One of the longest standing myths about serial killers is that they only target strangers, which is certainly not the case. One of Reg Christie's last victims was his wife, but she had very little, if anything, to do with his initial motivation for committing serial murder.

All the best,
Ben

OK, Ben, let me see if I understand how you are seeing this:

For some unknown reason, Joseph Fleming started killing -- perhaps one tried to rob or trick him? He struck in anger? Perhaps?

Let's say Tabram here?

He liked the feeling of killing. So, as he relived the murder, he considered how to keep from getting blood on himself, because he would have been between "spells" and lucid.

and he gradually developed and improved his methods?

Perhaps Kelly was always on his mind, so eventually, he just decided he wanted to "do" her and went over to Miller's Court.

Problem here is that I believe in a mid-morning killing.

Back, though, to the basic question, You see Fleming as beginning to kill randomly, perhaps, and MJK was something that eventually came to his mind? She was not the reason he began killing?

[Ben]

Hi Curious and Mal,

If Fleming was responsible for the the murders of Kelly and the others, his "motive" would not have been any different from those of other mutilating serial killers, i.e. purely one of sadoxexual gratification. One of the longest standing myths about serial killers is that they only target strangers, which is certainly not the case. One of Reg Christie's last victims was his wife, but she had very little, if anything, to do with his initial motivation for committing serial murder.

All the best,
Ben

[curious]

Hello Velma. Thanks. I rather like my chap as well.

Cheers.
LC

I know you do, Lynn. And while I see him as a possibility, I am not really positive about him -- or anything else really. I am beginning to see a large picture developing, but there are still so terribly many things I don't know.

[lynn cates]

JI

Hello Velma. Thanks. I rather like my chap as well.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Thanks, Ben,

But why the others? As I write that question, I recognize that is a major question for all the murders.

But speaking only of Fleming, if his problem was with Kelly, why the others?

yes exactly, why would any ex-lover of MJK kill all those others first, plus a few afterwards as well.... no way!

there's far more going on here than Fleming/ joe Barnett etc.

you would not kill other women, just to discourage your lover from being a prostitute as well, this is just rediculous

[curious]

Hi Curious,

I'm of the view that any viable suspect for one of the murders must automatically be considered a viable one for the others, since they are already linked by crime-scene evidence - nature of the injuries, victimology etc. Hence, if Fleming was responsible for the Kelly murder, he did for the others too.

Regards,
Ben

Thanks, Ben,

But why the others? As I write that question, I recognize that is a major question for all the murders.

But speaking only of Fleming, if his problem was with Kelly, why the others?

[Ben]

Hi Curious,

I'm of the view that any viable suspect for one of the murders must automatically be considered a viable one for the others, since they are already linked by crime-scene evidence - nature of the injuries, victimology etc. Hence, if Fleming was responsible for the Kelly murder, he did for the others too.

Regards,
Ben

[Malcolm X]

if Fleming was 67'' tall then yes, but definitely not as 6ft 7''....obviously!

it is most likely considering his weight, that he was only 5ft 7'', but was he smart enough to be JTR......probably !

i think JTR has something far more going on here, that goes way beyond Fleming...JTR seems more complicated than this, he seems too political/too anti-semetic, plus he's switching tactics back and forth.

this goes way beyond a jealous ex-boyfriend/ lover or a Schitzophrenic, he's more like a member of a local vigilante gang, or an anarchist etc, or a petty criminal that's turned nasty.

JTR seems to have extra ``layers and dimensions`` an ego, plus very aware of what's going down on the streets.

[curious]

Fleming works considerably better as a suspect than most. If a person who ill-used the most brutally murdered victim in the series, lived in the heart of the murder district, and was committed to a mental asylum for the last 28 years of his life doesn't "work", I'd love someone to suggest a better alternative.

I agree with that Ben.

do you see him for all the murders. Or just the last one?

[Ben]

Fleming works considerably better as a suspect than most. If a person who ill-used the most brutally murdered victim in the series, lived in the heart of the murder district, and was committed to a mental asylum for the last 28 years of his life doesn't "work", I'd love someone to suggest a better alternative.

[curious]

It's BS to force an issue because one's suspect doesn't fit right. Of course the idea of 6'7" being 67 inches isn't nonsense, but it becomes the glimmer of hope that suspect lovers are looking for to elevate a candidate who doesn't really work.

Mike

If other contemporary aslyum records are examined and the height sometimes written in inches, I believe we would have our answer.

IF JtR were just one man, three top favorite suspects are:
1. William Bury, my favorite from the first, but I now believe he was more likely a copycat who boxed himself in and took inspiration from the murders in White Chapel -- although his flight to Scotland does raise questions.

2. Jacob Levy - as an offal dresser he had the skills and the speed and wanted to be locked up before he hurt anyone else (faulty memory may be wrong here). He lived in the heart of the area; had been imprisoned for a year, which often helps people learn deadly skills; and he wandered around at night.

3. James Kelly is interesting, but I haven't studied him enough.

IF JTR happened to be more than one, which looks possible to me largely because of the drastic change in the physical type of woman killed:

1. Tabrum likely made the mistake of trying to roll a client and got a nasty surprise because he had a very bad temper and shipped out the next day. Interesting that Pearly Poll appeared to go into hiding, almost as though she thought she might be next. Wonder why?

2. I can see lumping Nichols and Chapman to the same killer. Both without money wandering around or not, if Chapman went to 29 Hanbury to sleep in a house she knew. They did not even have to have solicited the killer, could just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lynn's chap would actually work here, even inside 29 Hanbury.

3. Stride -- don't have figured out. The boldness, daring and speed certainly sound like the buzz created by the earlier murders.

4. Eddowes -- still looking. Not convinced one way or the other, but again, the speed and daring are persuasive for one killer.

5. Kelly -- so different in every way, I think she is the biggest question mark. Because of the clothing, I am beginning to suspect someone else was killed here and MJK either helped and/or knew about it and took advantage of an opportunity to do a runner.

Sorry, way more than you wanted to know.

[The Good Michael]

My logic is BS?! Thanks Mike! I thought the 67 inches mention and example was unique myself.
Flemming's height doesn't work for me, but I don't have him down as a suspect either.

It's BS to force an issue because one's suspect doesn't fit right. Of course the idea of 6'7" being 67 inches isn't nonsense, but it becomes the glimmer of hope that suspect lovers are looking for to elevate a candidate who doesn't really work.

Mike

[lynn cates]

brilliant

Hello Debs. I thought your 67 conjecture brilliant. I suppose time will provide the vindication.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

story of my life, Jon!