Would a Doctor or a Policeman participate in major crimes such as these?

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I have been sent an email asking this question:-

"Would a Doctor or Policeman participate in major crimes such as these?"

In the interests of serious debate only, I post the question here.

The email went on to compare the seeming acceptance of Ripperologists to seriously consider the possibility of a surgeon or medical student without considering (in the opinion of the email's writer) having possibly murdered one or more of the victims without much discussion of the ethical or moral side of the problem. The emailer then takes it a natural step further with the question of ethics and morals in mind.

The emailer has been interested in the case for many years, has no favourite suspect and works at senior management level on an international level, the emailer reads these boards, has never posted and prefers to follow the debates rather than participate, which I wholly respect.
i ask all to respect this. However, the emailer is not the focus of this posting, but the emailer's question.

Would a Doctor or Policeman participate in major crimes such as these?
i believe any level of qualification is included.

Any thoughts ladies and gentlemen?


On behalf of the emailer concerned,

Best wishes

Phìl

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. I know you're only the messenger, but by 'participate', is it being asked if a cop or a doctor would commit the murders or, in the case of a policeman, operate after the fact in a 'cover-up' fashion? I suppose we'd all have to admit that it's possible a doctor would have committed the crimes, since the medical evidence at least raises the possibility. However, I don't think a doctor would have had the curiosity of the Ripper. There would be no mystery to the insides of a human to a doctor. As for a cop, it's possible, but if he were an active cop assigned to a beat, I don't think we'd expect to find murders all over the map as we do, and as the murders occurred near or on a weekend, not to mention bank holidays and such, we'd have to expect all constables to be on duty. I don't think you'd find a cop who would have had all the murder days off.

So, my opinion is that it's possible the killer was a doc or a cop, but very unlikely.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom,

I understand 'participate' to mean at any level, in either case, doctor or policeman, not just the murder aspect, hence the question of morals and ethics.

Thank you for your fine post and honest opinion.

Best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

In that case, I don't see HOW a doctor could have participated after the fact, but of course a policeman could, and yes, I could see that as possible, but at present I'm not sure I can think of any evidence that would force such a conclusion. But if someone else can, I'd enjoy hearing it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[K-453]

Unfortunately, we live in a world where we can rely on nobody and nothing. Yes, a policeman or a doctor could commit such crimes. Also a teacher, a priest, a politician, a housewife ...

Thinking a doctor or policeman just could not commit such crimes is naive.
Sorry for sounding rude.

[lynn cates]

temper

Hello Phil. Are we very concerned about "personalities" which are usually associated with certain crimes? In that case, a doctor or police officer would not be my first choice.

I would look for a "melancholy" personality. Sad to say, I would be looking for college professors.

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

Well, doctors, nurses, medics, medical students all have had a serial killer in their ranks at some point or another, so the answer would seem to be yes.

As for cops? I can't think of a cop serial killer. Multiple murderer certainly, we had one here not so long ago. A couple of family annihilators come to mind as well. Rapists certainly, the occassional hitman (usually caught before actually killing anyone) thieves, stalkers, child molesters... you name it.

If your questioner believes that there is an inherent moral dilemma in someone who sees the preservation of life as a sacred duty committing murders, well there is. Of course medical personnel who kill do not in fact see the preservation of human life as sacred. Dilemma resolved. Not everyone who becomes a doctor does it out of some noble calling. Some people are drawn to human suffering like flies to ****. If you get off on watching people die, there is probably not a better profession out there for you. And there don't have to be base motivations for it either. My own father is a doctor, and not because of any noble calling. Like a lot of people, there were familial expectations that he would become a doctor or a lawyer, or at worst a university level professor. And even if there hadn't been, it got him out of going to Vietnam, which may well have seemed like a noble enough calling at the time. He never loved it.

Absolutely nothing requires a medical professional to have a deep seated moral respect for life. And in fact that can be a burden in certain situations, as are most moral absolutes. If you stand up in med school and announce that you will try as hard as your salary dictates to save a life, and will not exert yourself an ounce more, they won't even send you to the Dean's office. People become doctors for any number of reasons. Quite frankly the least of which is the desire to save lives. The money, the power, the success, the nurses, family pressure, being good at biology... In my city they just released the statistic that there are eight times as many plastic surgeons in private practice than ER doctors in the two hospitals that serve lower income neighborhoods. Only twice as many plastic surgeons as ER doctors in all the hospitals. This would not be true if doctors were by nature a noble breed.

The real impediment to a doctor being Jack the Ripper is twofold. Firstly, I would expect a doctor to do a better job at cutting up people. And secondly, doctors were not so numerous back then that even the most successful did not have to work some insane hours. If your shift at the hospital is 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., I don't see you spending your evenings stalking prostitutes. I see you sacked out. Or at the club or a brothel pursuing some serious relaxation. Unless you were a gentleman, and then your hours would be as brief as you like, but then you are back to the toff in Whitechapel problem. Similarly if it were a cop, I would expect him to know the patrols better, and you know, not kill people when one was due any minute. But I see no moral dilemma either way. Not if the person in question has no particular morals.

[Wickerman]

Unfortunately, we live in a world where we can rely on nobody and nothing. Yes, a policeman or a doctor could commit such crimes. Also a teacher, a priest, a politician, a housewife ...

Thinking a doctor or policeman just could not commit such crimes is naive.
Sorry for sounding rude.

In short, madness knows no boundaries..

[Robert]

A doctor might have committed the crimes, but could not possibly have written the Goulston St message or any of the major letters, since the handwriting was legible.

A policeman might have committed the crimes, but would have cried "Allo, allo, allo, what's all this then?" while removing the organs.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Thank you all for your thoughts thusfar. If or when I recieve any follow up comment or questions I will post again.

As an observation Errata, one very recent tragedy has occured two days ago following the sacking of an Inspector of high repute for mis-use of police records and subsequently murdered his wife and youngest child, seriously injuring his two other children before suicide,
his type of incident is one you refer to in your post,

best wishes

Phil

[Monty]

Hello all,

Thank you all for your thoughts thusfar. If or when I recieve any follow up comment or questions I will post again.

As an observation Errata, one very recent tragedy has occured two days ago following the sacking of an Inspector of high repute for mis-use of police records and subsequently murdered his wife and youngest child, seriously injuring his two other children before suicide,
his type of incident is one you refer to in your post,

best wishes

Phil

This inicident Phil refers to, regarding Inspector Tobias Day, is competely irrelevant to to question this thread poses. Whilst the crime commited by Inspector Day is henious, cruel and completely and utterly unforgivable it can no way be compared with the Whitechapel murders.

Day murdered his wife and one of his children, attempted to murder the remaining elder children, in a space of hours. This a week after being dismissed for miss use of systems and basically lying about it. However it seems the family were suffering financially and the obvious difficultly that Day would have in obtaining work resulted in a crime committed by a man of unstabled mind.

I cannot condone what Day has done, however before you condem and judge, I will tell you this. I had dealings with Inspector Day through his job. My experience was that he was pro-active, professional, courteous and a man of his word. He said he was going to do what was agreed and by jove he did. This tragedy is beyond words and, as I state, his actions are unforgivable. I'm just stating they may be understandable.

As for Jack being a Policeman, Doctor etc. Serial Killers have been a Trucker, Poster delivery man, a nurse or a Civil Servant working in a job centre. I don't see the relevance of the question.

Monty


ps Christie was an ex PC.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

1) I was just referring to the type of tragic incident Errata referred to, and made NO comparison.
2) The ex-policeman concerned's repute whilst in service was referred to by me as high and was not under question.
3) Others seem to have no problem with the threads question. Neither do I, as it was a consideration involving morals and ethics vis a vis any possible participation of ANY kind in these crimes. Therefore the valid question was asked and posted. If you have the view it isnt a valid question, you have now made your entitled view on the matter known, thank you for taking the interest and time to do so.

Phil

[Monty]

Hello Phil

1) As Erreta made no mention of names or details, its you who suggested this case. As you mentioned it, and decided to point out Days dismissal detail, I took it that you were comparing. If you state you are not then I apologise but ask why you felt the need to highlight Days dismissal and reasons?

2) You did, however as stated you took great pains to highlight the reasons. As it stands Day was found guilty and his reputation is obviously in disrepute, and rightly so. However there is more to this than his misdemeanors.

3) Forgive me if I'm wrong but this question of morals has no relevance to occupation. Its morally and ethically questionable to partake in murder no matter what job you do.

Why single out Police and Doctors?

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

No apology needed,

'Great pains'? Hardly. I just mentioned this recent occurranse as an example of Errata's type of occurrance. No more. As said, there was no comparison stated nor meant.
Why Doctors and Policemen? Well, it isnt my question so I cant answer you.

I repeat that I am merely posting someone else's observation and question, whìch given the info and reasons I saw was a fair question, relating to morals and ethics connected to those professions. It would be wrong for me to assume a reason why these professions beyond that information given, if that changes, then I will post it. Again, thank you for taking the time and interest to reply.

Phil

[Monty]

Ok Phil,

Acknowledged.

Monty