Suspects Poll

[spyglass]

Hi Tom,
I dont think the diary has been PROOVED to be a modern fake, And I am very sure that Mccormick has been dead a while now, so how did he admit to making the poem up.
Am I not right that a famouse London antiquarian book dealer's were 100 % certain that it came from the victorian period. Maybe there has been developments that I am not aware off, I do know that certain JTR historians claim to have certain imfo that shows it a modern fake.
Anyway I'm guessing then that you would bet your house on it NOT being Maybrick, I would not. We should play cards sometime!!

Best wishes.

ps. Where's Soothsayer when you need him ?

[mklhawley]

I voted for "Other" and probably I'm right.

Jeff

NewYorkers ...Oh, I'm one too

[Mayerling]

I voted for "Other" and probably I'm right.

Jeff

[sleekviper]

Hi Spyglass,
I would most certainly take the challenge to guess who was not written in the envelope. Since I would assume some undeniable evidence would accompany the name, I would say the first person that came to mind from this case, hand over all I had, and run with the proof and name. All I have, for that? I would be homeless with a smile for a short time.

[Tom_Wescott]

The arrest of tall, dark suspects only means that the individuals in question came to the attention of the police for reasons that were unrelated to their physical appearance. If a tall, dark man is arrested for assaulting a woman (for example), he's hardly going to be released immediately owing to incompatibility with ripper-associated eyewitness descriptions. He would warrant serious investigation in spite of this incompatibility. This does not invalidate the observation that Tumblety is a very poor match for the witness descriptions.

I'm not so sure about that. Pipeman was about 6ft tall, and Lawende's man was 5'9" while slouching. I'm 6'2" and usually have my height guessed at 5'10" to 6ft.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

If you had a sealed envelope in front of you that contained the name of JtR, could you or would you honestly bet a huge amount of money on who it definitely WAS'NT. I know I wouldnt...not even Maybrick.

Absolutely, and I would be right, because I always am.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

I dont wish to get into the Maybrick arguments on this thread, however I would point out that there is no evidence that the diary is a modern fake as far as I know., but more likely a hoax from the actual period.

Hi Spy. Actually, the opposite is true. Our own Simon Wood is the one who noticed the 'FM' on Mary Kelly's wall in the early 80's, and this is referenced in the Diary. More to the point, a poem in Donald McCormick's book, which he attributed to the Ripper, appears in an altered form in the Diary, and McCormick has since acknowledged that he made that poem up. The full story of that is in the new book by Spiro. There's little doubt but that the Diary was written within a few years of it becoming public.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DavidtheFish]

I am going with James Kelly. He looks alot more like JtR in the few sketches i have seen rather then Kosminsky does(in my opinion), he knew how to use a knife(upholsterer), later in life, he admitted to being in london during that time and I think he could have acted "normal" when conversing with his victims so that they would let their guards down just that bit for him to pounce. Although both were insane, I don't think Kosminsky could have mantained a sane appearance long enough to lure these women to their death. I know I am going to get asked to prove this....but I can only base it on various documentaries I have seen. I await the responses from those more experienced in this subject then me.

[spyglass]

Hi Scott,
I was dreading that question, to be honest it's such a long time ago I read up on him that I really cant remember. I will dust down my old books and refresh my memory and hopefully Those old feelings will return.

[Scott Nelson]

There is something about JK Stephen thats always bothered me but dont ask me why.

What if his spirit asked you why?

[spyglass]

I dont wish to get into the Maybrick arguments on this thread, however I would point out that there is no evidence that the diary is a modern fake as far as I know., but more likely a hoax from the actual period.

Best wishes.

[spyglass]

yes very likely!
But we cant be one hundred percent certain of anything in this case, and I would not be willing to bet my house on it.

[Jonathan H]

The name in the envelope could be Druitt, or Tumblety, or Kosminski, but it could not be Maybrick as that is a shabby, modern-day hoax.

As I understand it the fake diary has a draft of a poem which is actually one of McCormick's hoaxes from the late 50's.

[spyglass]

There is something about JK Stephen thats always bothered me but dont ask me why.
However I have a question for all of you if you can be bothered that is. If you had a sealed envelope in front of you that contained the name of JtR, could you or would you honestly bet a huge amount of money on who it definitely WAS'NT. I know I wouldnt...not even Maybrick.

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,



The arrest of tall, dark suspects only means that the individuals in question came to the attention of the police for reasons that were unrelated to their physical appearance. If a tall, dark man is arrested for assaulting a woman (for example), he's hardly going to be released immediately owing to incompatibility with ripper-associated eyewitness descriptions. He would warrant serious investigation in spite of this incompatibility. This does not invalidate the observation that Tumblety is a very poor match for the witness descriptions.

I'm also not convinced that Tumblety conforms as closely as you suggest to a psychopathic personality. Do we really have any great insight into Tumblety's ability or otherwise "to love"?

Just I aside here, but I wonder how many of the 20 people who voted for "other/unknown" had the same specific "other" in mind?

All the best,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Excellent points, but of course I disagree with you. That fact that they followed through with arresting tall men, demonstrates that them focusing primarily upon specific suspect witness descriptions got them nowhere. Again, there are no suspect descriptions of anyone doing the actual killing. In the case of Tumblety, certain articles do demonstrate he was suspected. Notice the first one even has Inspector Byrnes basically admitting Scotland Yard suspected Tumblety:


New York World (U.S.A.), 4 December 1888
Inspector Byrnes was asked what his object in shadowing Twomblety. "I simply wanted to put a tag on him." he replied, "so that we can tell where he is. Of course, he cannot be arrested, for there is no proof in his complicity in the Whitechapel murders, and the crime for which he was under bond in London is not extaditable."

The Evening World, December 3, 1888
…The London police are anxiously searching for samples of his handwriting to compare with that of “Jack the Ripper.”

We actually do have insight in Tumblety’s ability to love. One is in all of his life, we see none. Even in the gay community, we find partners. Another is his passion for Caine in the 1870s. A closer look at this relationship is quite revealing.

Sincerely,
Mike