Has Harry Cox's suspect ever been identified?

[Defective Detective]

Hello, all.

In their masterful Jack The Ripper Companion, Stewart Evans and Ketih Skinner relate a (rather lengthy) story told by Detective Inspector Harry Cox to Thomson's Weekly News regarding a suspect he'd been instructed to shadow by his superiors at the City Police. The entry is much too lengthy to post here in full, and most of you have likely read it already, but the descriptive parts regarding the suspect are detailed as follows:

... The man we suspected was about five feet six inches in height, with short, black, curly hair, and he had a habit of taking late walks abroad. He occupied several shops in the East End, but from time to time he became insane, and was forced to spend a portion of his time in an asylum in Surrey. While the Whitechapel murders were being perpetrated his place of business was in a certain street, and after the last murder I was on duty in this street for nearly three months.

Precious little information is given by Cox as to the exact location of the suspect's shop, except that it was apparently in walking distance of Leman Street - meaning, very probably, in my view, that the suspect's shop was located on Commercial Street. The "asylum in Surrey" mentioned was almost assuredly Holloway. Other than that, I've not the slightest where to begin in tracing this man.

[Scott Nelson]

David Cohen would be a good choice, even though he was picked up about a month after the Kelly murder, not about three months as Cox implies about his suspect.

[Defective Detective]

Is it known that Cohen spent time in Surrey?

For that matter, would attempting to contact Holloway be as futile a gesture as I imagine it might be?

EDIT: Or Banstead, as Chris has suggested to me.

[lynn cates]

Lma

Hello DD. Why not chat up the LMA? They still possess many records from the various asylums.

Cheers.
LC

[Defective Detective]

Not a bad thought. I'm not quite sure on the proper procedure to go about doing that, but I'm in no hurry. My interest in this suspect is more prosaic.

So many lunatics, so little time.

[lynn cates]

easy

Hello DD. Give them a go. They are quite easy to work with--if a bit slow. They can even help you research, for a nominal fee.

Cheers.
LC

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Records_and_archives/

[S.Brett]

Joseph Denny: He was described as 20 years of age, 5ft 6" tall, with a fair complexion, slight moustache and very curly hair. ...he matched the description George Hutchinson gave of the Ripper.

George Hutchinson´s Astrakhan-Man: Description age about 34 or 35. height 5ft6 complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes slight moustache, curled up each end, and hair dark...

Cox´s suspect: The man we suspected was about 5 feet 6 inches in height, with short, black, curly hair...

I think, Cox observed Hutchinson´s Astrakhan- Man. But this man was not Joseph Denny.

[Errata]

Well, given the language used, it sounds like a business owner and not an employee. Which doesn't mean rich or anything, or even that he had employees, but it could be a watchmaker or barber etc. with his own shop. Which would indicate that any indigent suspects or those employed by others would be out. I don't have clue what "from time to time he became insane" means, since insanity is like pregnancy, you are, or you are not. Sort of a binary state.

The other question would have to be about being "forced" to spend time in an asylum. Forced by his condition, or forced by an outside party? If Cox meant forced by his condition, that's actually a pretty sympathetic view for a murder suspect. If he meant forced by an outside party, then that likely means cops, and there would be a record. I don't know the answer, but it strikes me that if Cox was taking the sympathetic view, then he likely didn't consider the man a viable suspect.

[Robert]

Hi Errata

Mary Lamb, sister of Charles, suffered intermittent bouts of insanity. I believe when the illness was upon her, he would walk with her to the asylum, her straitjacket draped over his arm.

[Robert]

http://studymore.org.uk/ylamb.htm#Bridget

[Errata]

Hi Errata

Mary Lamb, sister of Charles, suffered intermittent bouts of insanity. I believe when the illness was upon her, he would walk with her to the asylum, her straitjacket draped over his arm.

It's a parlance pet peeve. One is insane, or one is not. It is a binary state. However, one is not always symptomatic. So people don't suffer from intermittent bouts of insanity, they suffer from intermittent symptoms of insanity. Akin diabetes. You are diabetic, or you are not. But you don't always feel sick.

It's just one of those things that drives me nuts. Mostly because when people don't understand that they expect very peculiar things from the mentally ill.

[Scott Nelson]

The other question would have to be about being "forced" to spend time in an asylum. Forced by his condition, or forced by an outside party? If Cox meant forced by his condition, that's actually a pretty sympathetic view for a murder suspect. If he meant forced by an outside party, then that likely means cops, and there would be a record. I don't know the answer, but it strikes me that if Cox was taking the sympathetic view, then he likely didn't consider the man a viable suspect.

No, Cox says very clearly that there was little doubt the man was the Ripper.

[Bridewell]

Are You Sure?

No, Cox says very clearly that there was little doubt the man was the Ripper.

He says, among other things,

"He was never arrested for the reason that not the slightest scrap of evidence could be found to connect him to the crimes" also

"The mystery is as much of a mystery as it was fifteen years ago".

He refers to "the man we suspected", and I accept that it's largely a matter of interpretation, but I can't find where he "very clearly says that there was little doubt the man was the Ripper".

Regards,Bridewell.

[Errata]

No, Cox says very clearly that there was little doubt the man was the Ripper.

Well then that would indicate "forced" meaning by an outside party, which eliminates any voluntary commitments. And may in fact indicate an incident involving criminal activity, such as an assault or disturbing the peace where he was committed by a judge or some other government agency. Which likely means a record.

For example, Kosminski had one commitment as a (somewhat removed) result of a conviction. He was sentenced to jail, but committed for his behavior in jail. His second commitment was essentially voluntary, although likely there was an enormous amount of family pressure involved. He willingly went into a workhouse evaluation knowing that his actual destination was going to be an asylum.

And really the only it reason it matters is that if you are going to be sifting through records, it is going to be far easier to find the disposition of sentenced criminal who fits this description than poring through every civil commitment record. It's just trying to find little clues from how Cox says something since he doesn't say much.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello, all.

In their masterful Jack The Ripper Companion, Stewart Evans and Ketih Skinner relate a (rather lengthy) story told by Detective Inspector Harry Cox to Thomson's Weekly News regarding a suspect he'd been instructed to shadow by his superiors at the City Police. The entry is much too lengthy to post here in full, and most of you have likely read it already, but the descriptive parts regarding the suspect are detailed as follows:

... The man we suspected was about five feet six inches in height, with short, black, curly hair, and he had a habit of taking late walks abroad. He occupied several shops in the East End, but from time to time he became insane, and was forced to spend a portion of his time in an asylum in Surrey. While the Whitechapel murders were being perpetrated his place of business was in a certain street, and after the last murder I was on duty in this street for nearly three months.

Precious little information is given by Cox as to the exact location of the suspect's shop, except that it was apparently in walking distance of Leman Street - meaning, very probably, in my view, that the suspect's shop was located on Commercial Street. The "asylum in Surrey" mentioned was almost assuredly Holloway. Other than that, I've not the slightest where to begin in tracing this man.

Hi detective, the Premises sounds much like the Tailoring workshop in Green Field Street.

I don't think Holloway was a private asylum.

Becoming insane from time to time is consistent with what we know today about Schizophrenia. ie an illness that progresses in waves.

If the Marginalia is correct then we know Kosminski was watched for some period of time..

No records of this surveylance has survived as far as I'm aware but I have no difficulty excepting Cox told the truth. Nearly all the police records were destroyed or lost.

From memory 15 years was 1891..

Yours Jeff