Just how many killers were there?

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

We have a time-infested problem with just how many victims were killed by the same hand. Because of Dr. Bond and his asked for opinion on the matter, and Sir Melville MacNaghten's now infamous written word, for many years it was presumed that this was the last word, the so-called canonical 5 victims. Stride, for many years, and Kelly, more recently, have been questioned by some or many. But let us, for the sake of argument here, say that the C5 holds true. (Not that I personally believe it, mind you)

What does that leave us with? A person, unknown but called Jack the Ripper killed 5 women. So the obvious question is... who killed all the others?

Before the C5, we have...

Emma Smith 3rd April 1888
Martha Tabram 7th August 1888

and after 4 of the C5, we have

The Whitehall mystery... 3rd Octber 1888

Then after the C5, we have...

Rose Mylett 20th December 1888
Elizabeth Jackson June 1889
Alice McKenzie 17th July 1889
The Pinchin Street torso 10th September 1889
Francis Coles 13th February 1891

Ok. 8 more murders. 4 in 1888, 3 in 1889 and 1 in 1891

Now, according to more info passed down along the way from various sources, it was believed, by some, that the "Jack the Ripper" murders stopped after Mary Kelly, November 1888.

If we believe the Bond report etc, all murders in 1888 not in the C5 could not have been Jack's work. Emma Smith and Martha Tabram, likewise the Whitehall mystery and Rose Mylett. 4 murders.

How many of these murders were by the same hand?
How many of the 3 murders in 1889 were by the same hand?
Was Francis Coles killed in 1891by the same hand that killed any previous victim?

Breaking this down, if the Torso murders were NOT JTR, but WERE done by the same hand, with no other victims, then in the short space of time between the Whitehall mystery and Pinchin Street, 3 murders were comitted by another killer than Jack. I will call him Torso Terry.

Then we have the remaining 5.

Smith, Tabram, Mylett, McKenzie and Coles. 2 in 1888, 2 in 1889, 1 in 1891.

There are few who say that Smith's killer and Tabram's were one and the same man. Therefore, 2 more killers.

I am yet to see, though of course stand corrected if Mylett and McKenzie have been lumped together by the police in general, likewise the inclusion of whoever killed Frances Coles.

What I am trying to point out here, is that within a fairly small area, 13 women were murdered by a minimum of 4 men. Minimum. Could actually be as many as 9 men, infact.

Now that little statistic raises eyebrows. A possible 9 different killers in the space of 3 years in the same general area?.. take Frances Coles out of that equation, and you have 8 different possible murderers in under 2 years (21 months). Incredible isn't it.
So JTR had 5 victims to his name, The Torso killer had 3, and the rest? Well, take Coles out for the possible reason of Sadler and length of time in between, and that leaves 4 more women killed, Smith, Tabram, Mylett McKenzie. If these were NOT by the same hand ladies and gentlemen, as seems possible in two cases, Smith and Tabram, with possibly Mylett and McKenzie killed by the same hand...hey presto, just how many killers were there? 4?, 5? 6? 7? 8? 9?...and all that is BEFORE you look at the C5... what, supposing here, if Stride was NOT Jack's work? And not Kelly either? But that these two are NOT by the same hand either? Can we link up Stride's and or Kelly's killer with the other non-canonicals' murderers? If so, which ones fit?

Yes, I am playing with supposition here, and possibilities. But the most interesting thing about all of this, are the amount of non-death knife attacks in the area during the same time period ON TOP of all of these horrible murders. The thought of one murderer in an area is bad enough. Two, and you are in the line of panic. More than two? No wonder someone tried to lump as many of these murders together under the banner of Jack the Ripper's work. Because let us face facts here. 13 women were killed in 3 years. And if Jacks 5, Torso Terry's 3 and Frances Coles are three different killers... thats a minimum of 4 killers.
How would any overcrowded, poor and poverty stricken bunch of the population react? Sheer unadulterated FEAR, I'll wager.

And the police caught none of them. Not one. So they roamed around, free, amongst the poplace.

It may be just stats. Just playing with numbers. But just how many killers were there?

Enjoy the discussion. I will sit and read avidly all replies.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

A little additon and ammendment here and there. It was kindly pointed out to me by another Casebook member that although the Whitehall mystery was discovered on the date given above, the actual date of the murder goes back to at least September 16th, when the arm corresponding to the torso was found. Death was dated anywhere betwen the end of August and beginning of September. so essentially the Whitehall murder is not after the C4, but alondside the start of the canonical series of murders.
Another point was that Bond thought that McKenzie was also a canonical, but that Sir Robert Anderson did not agree. Therefore the C5 as we know it is basically Sir MM's view of things based on both Bond and Anderson's views.
Finally, the Rainham Torso of 1887 I left out. This murder could well have been connected to the same Torso series mentioned in the posting above.

My thanks to the Casebook member for their help and in correcting me.

best wishes

Phil

[Rubyretro]

It certainly is a very interesting question, and as you say, almost impossible to sort out at this late date.

I used to believe only in the C5, because of the similarities in the MO -(I'd still put the C5 all down to Jack).

However, if you google 'Pat Brown Exposes 10 Myths About Serial Killers' you can see that one of the 'myths' is that you can link a serial killer by his MO.

One of the reasons that killers are so hard to catch is that they can radically change their MO, even going backwards from murder to rape. The Police today have a tendancy to downplay any links in murders, because they don't want to 'panic' the population into thinking a serial killer is at large -so they might knowingly try and write something off as a 'one off' and hope the killer will just get fed up or move away (which they do)...it might have been the same in the 1880s.

I wouldn't have included Tabram or the torso murders as Jack's before -but who knows ?

Maybe there were fewer murderers loose than you think !

[Phil Carter]

Hello Rubytro,

Indeed, it could be only one, for all we know! However, looking at the known facts, I doubt it. The amount of possible killers in the area during this time really does ask questions though. If you were to have a stab, as it were...how many would you say?

best wishes

Phil

[Patutte]

Hmm

Technically speaking there could have been been dozens of killers. Considering the area, and the apparent frequency of said crime, it wouldn't be shocking. It's even possible that all the possible JTR victims were killed by different people & the killings were in no way connected to each other.

Now that's just killers in general though. However if your speaking of serial killers, which is a entirely different matter, the odds of there being more then 1 serial killer within a area is extremely low. Not impossible, just highly unlikely. I don't think that a serial killer would tolerate the presence of another, especially if said killer were taking victims of a similar nature and or taking credit for murders committed by the other killer. Just my 2 cents though.