Hidden In Plain Sight

[Errata]

Hello Tecs, Parapets are overated Buddy! This is a scan of pages 122 and 123 of the Trial of George Chapman. Grey line at far right is relevant section. Dave

See I would have bet money Chapman was Catholic. Severin Antoniovich Klosowski is about as Christian as it gets. Of course, I'm pretty sure he was anyway. Even Jews get marriage certificates after all. We don't always get ceremonies, but we always get paperwork. Silly George. And they were supposedly married in a Catholic Church, so why wouldn't he get a certificate? I think Mr. Ward just wasn't exercising critical thinking skills towards that statement.

TomTom: All I was saying is that one or two Jewish suspects do not, to me, indicate a police force focused in on the Jewish community. I absolutely think that they were investigating "Kosminski". As they should. Whoever Lawende and Levy saw needed to be found, if only to be ruled out as a suspect or to establish timing. The same for the Guy and his buddy who shouted "Lipski!" at Schwartz. If a guy is lingering near a synagogue with the victim, of course you look for someone who would be hanging out by a synagogue. Just as you likely wouldn't look for the Lipski Boys to be hanging out near a synagogue. I just don't have the impression that the police were homing in on the Ripper, and they knew he was a Jew. I think they had many suspects, and one of them was a Jew.

I know that people described a "Jewish" looking suspect (ohh if you only knew) but didn't people also describe a sailor? and a soldier? and a rich guy? And I'm actually fond of the sailor idea. Was there a vast majority that described a "Jew" rather than something else? I've never actually looked into that.

[Chris]

See I would have bet money Chapman was Catholic. Severin Antoniovich Klosowski is about as Christian as it gets. Of course, I'm pretty sure he was anyway.

Yes, he was. Here's an extract from his birth certificate, as given by R. Michael Gordon, in "Alias Jack the Ripper" (2001) (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=n5PWnVtQs4MC ).

Originally this comes from an appendix of Hargrave Lee Adam's "The Trial of George Chapman" (1930).

[c.d.]

If the BS man used Lipski as a verb meaning to do harm to someone that would remove all religious connotation.

c.d.

[Errata]

If the BS man used Lipski as a verb meaning to do harm to someone that would remove all religious connotation.

c.d.

did people use it as a verb? And there was never any religious connotation so much as it was an ethnic slur.

Although as I think about it, I'm not sure it becomes less of an ethnic slur as a verb. For example:

"That guy wouldn't stop trying to get his sweater marked down. He was being such a Jew."

noun, and ethnic slur.

"That guy kept on trying to Jew me down on the price of that sweater."

verb, still an ethnic slur.

But I don't know... it requires thought.

Chris: Yeah, I figured anyone with two Saint names was bound to be Catholic.

[Tecs]

Dave,

Many thanks.

I knew Chapman was Catholic and I was pretty sure I'd read that he'd said that he was Jewish at some point. Nice to know the old memory is still just about working!

It was in The trial of George Chapman that I read it too, I've got a copy upstairs.

Thanks,

Regards,

[protohistorian]

Errata, I think being used as a verb in this context refers to the murder the year previously. The verb would be murder or at least to commit violence on. I think that is it as Miriam Angel's killers last name was Lipski. I may have this wrong however. Dave

[c.d.]

I meant to say that used as a verb it has no ethnic connotation not religious connotation. My understanding is that of Prohistorian in that it could be used as a verb. Directed at Schwartz it would imply "you keep looking over here and I'll Lipski your ass."

c.d.

[Errata]

I meant to say that used as a verb it has no ethnic connotation not religious connotation. My understanding is that of Prohistorian in that it could be used as a verb. Directed at Schwartz it would imply "you keep looking over here and I'll Lipski your ass."

c.d.

Ok. I'm not really aware of all that many noun/verb subject disagreement insults, but I will absolutely bow to you on the possibility. It is odd for someone to use Lipski as a noun type insult (you are a lipski- and thats a bad thing) and then to use it as a verb type insult (I will lipski you-which is a bad thing. which makes me lipski- which we already established is a bad thing)

But on the other hand, not only is "to OJ someone" a commonly recognized verb, it comes with an accompanying commonly recognized hand gesture (the Psycho knife stabby thing) So while I don't think there is any way to use "Lipski" that is not going to scare the crap out of any Jew within hearing distance, I can easily grant that that might not be the intent. Or to put it another way, he said it to be an a**hole, but he didn't mean to be a racist a**hole.

[protohistorian]

Will the court stenographer please note that Errata made the "stabby, stabby" motion when refering to O.J.