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  • Some of the "filibusters" ended up settling for a lousy 15 bucks.

    New York Sun, March 12, 1886, Page 1, Column 3

    OUR FILIBUSTERS ARE BACK.

    Ten of the Fourth Warders Here
    With Not a Cent Among Them

    Wouldn't Sail on the Fram to Fight for Soto
    and they had to Live on Poorhouse Fare
    at Turk's Island--The Band of 21 Split

    Ten of the Fourth ward filibusters, very
    dilapidated, and without the price of a drink
    among them, but in perfect health, are aboard
    the steamship San Domingo, which dropped
    anchor at Quarantine last night. They have
    been no further than Turk's Island, in the
    West Indies. They and others shipped from
    New York in the San Domingo on Feb. 4 "to
    pick rubber and survey a canal in Guatemala,"
    but they soon found out that the real object of
    their mission was to upset the Government of
    Honduras. James F. Halliday. Marlon Ray's
    brother, and David H. Wallace, her lover, were
    leaders of the expedition. There was a split in
    the band on Turk's Island. Halliday returned
    to this city on the Fram on Monday. Wallace is
    at Kingston, and all the Fourth warders with
    one or two exceptions came back on tha San
    Domingo.

    The reporter of THE SUN, who was rowed out
    to the San Domingo in a lantern-lighted boat
    last night, heard negro melodies being sung in
    the Fourth ward version on the steerage deck.
    The filibusters rushed to the rail when they
    beard that there was a SUN reporter climbing
    up the ship's ladder. Every face was brown
    with exposure, and every man's clothes had
    seen hard usage. They were a jolly, noisy lot,
    though, and all talked to the reporter at once.
    First thing they gave their names and addresses
    as follows:

    James Bogan of 7 East Broadway, or Howard House,
    as you please; Christopher Dunigan [sic], 33 James street,
    used to be assistant undertaker for Mr. Moran; James
    Gleason, called "Dutchy," 96 Monroe street; William
    Doran, called the "Kid," Franklin House, 450 Pearl
    street; John Connors, Franklin House; Thomas O'Connor,
    134 Cherry street; Wm. Williams, English, fireman,
    boarded wllh David Jones, 147 Cherry street; John
    Whittle of Boston was looking for a job as a cooK when
    he Was roped in; Joseph Miller, the Dutchman, boarder
    with Jones & Williams, 147 cherry street; Alexander
    Dix ("Sandy"), printer and variety actor, Howard
    House.

    Their eleven fellow passengers from whom
    they cut loose on Turk's Island, they said,
    were:

    James F. Halliday, David H. Wallace, Thomas Connors
    of Orange, N, J., Charles Perry of Brooklyn, Tommy
    Loftus of 141 Cherry street; Jones & Williams's right-hand
    man, ---- Alexander of Brooklyn; Harry Ball of
    Orange, a friend of Connors, and who told the party he
    was a reporter; Dennis Mahoney, 147 Cherry street,
    another of Jones & Williams's men; Andrew van Schafflen.
    Bangor, Me; Daniel H. Austin, and a boarder in Dago
    White's Sailors' Home In Oliver street.

    Whittle talked for the rest last night, with
    the others chipping in occasionally. He said:

    W. E. Gould engaged us in Jones & Williams's office in
    Cherry street. We were to go and survey in British
    Honduras, and collect rubber, and work on a railroad in
    Guatemala. Gould promised us $30 a month aud found[?].
    We were told that we would get $5 in advance when we
    arrived on Turk's Island. Holliday [sic] was introduced to
    us as our overseer, and Wallace, we were told, was
    Halliday's best man. After signing we had only half an
    hour to get our duds, say good by, and be on the ship.
    You can bet we didn't nave time to ask questions.

    After we were twenty-four hours out of New York
    Halliday, Wallace, Perry, Alexander, Ball and Connors
    approached us, and told us in whispers that we were not
    to do work on Turk'e Island, but would find out our
    duties when we got there. Halliday said that there
    were arms and ammunition in the hold of the San
    Domingo. When we got off at Turk's Island, Halliday told
    us that a steamer would be along soon to take us away.
    He didn't say what steamer it was until the Fram
    arrived, floating the Norwegian flag. He told us then
    that we were to go on the Fram and be transferred by
    her to the City ot Mexico on which we were to do fighting
    for Mr. Soto of Fifth Avenue, New York. We ten
    and three more refused to go on the Fram. H. Jackson,
    Commissioner for the island, tried to persuade us to go,
    because he wanted to get rid of us, but we wouldn't
    board the Fram. Halliday, Wallace, Ball, Connors, Alexander.
    and two others went. About this time Austin,
    Mahoney and Van Schafflen shipped on different vessels
    that stopped at Turk s Island.

    We would have been without food after the Fram
    sailed with Halliday if Mr Stanley Jones, the Clyde line
    agent, and his family had not taken care of us. They
    were very good to us. So was C. F. Myers, the American
    boarding house keeper, who cared for us three days.
    Ihe American Consul, Mr. Sawyer, helped us all he
    could. He had to do it out ot his own purse. We were
    living on Commissioner Jackson, who fed us jail fare,
    until one of us thought of getting up a minstrel
    performance.

    Christy Dunegan unfolded a huge banner,
    which was a programme ot the American Minstrels'
    final performance at the Court House.
    Admission was 9 pence, and reserved seats
    were 1 shilling. "Dr. Brown's Office" was the
    title of one of the numbers on the piogramme.

    "The show," Whittle said, "netted us $40,
    and we were able to buy our own grub for
    a while, but we got out of funds again by the
    time the San Domingo came along und picked
    us up."

    The Fourth warders were in trepidation lest
    they might not be able to get over Fulton Ferry
    or the bridge from Harbeck's Stores, Brooklyn,
    this morning, because they could not scare up
    a copper among them.

    The thirteen men who refused to go on the
    Fram made affidavit to the facts before the
    United States Consul, N. K. Sawyer, on Feb. 12,
    the day tbe Fram touched there. They declared
    that they were told when the Fram
    came in that "we had to go and fight for
    a man by the name of De Soto and
    we declined to go on those conditions, so were
    left here destitute. without any place to stay.
    We all think it was a fraudulent piece of business
    from beginning to end." They have
    brought back a certificate from the Consul and
    from local authorities that they were maintained
    on Turk's Island at the public expanse.

    KEY WEST, March 11.--Of tbe twenty-nine
    alleged filibusters made prisoners on the City
    of Mexico, these are from New York:

    Charles B. Jackson, George G. Watson. Francis W.
    Tryon, Jr., Peter L. Dani and Albert Larradore, all citizens
    of the United states, Rosendo Tewara, Central
    American; Carlos H. Arvelo, Venezuelan; Jaime Arien[?],
    Catalonian; Francisco Ortega, Spaniard; Alejandro
    Dumas, Spaniard; M. Soto, Spaniard, aud J. K. Hermann,
    servant.

    The others are:

    Gen. Emilio Delgado of Santo Rosa, F Ramon Soto of
    Comayegua, Juan H. Rivan of Porto Rico, Vincenti Ayesto
    of Tegucigalpa, R. J. Herradora of Tegucigalpa. Prospero
    Weylelaba of Belize, Manuel Morri of Costa Rica, Ram
    Aleman of Belize, Fradoro[?] Calderon of Belize, Francisco
    Garcia of Belize, Isabel Alvarez of Belize, Jeronimo
    Echeverria of Belize, Teodora Baliadar of Belize,
    Federico Maradiaga of Belize, Lorenzo Fucisco[?] of Progreso,
    Nomedio Luna of Progreso, Luiz M Urbina of Belize.

    The probabilities are that all will be set free
    except such as are held as witnesses against
    the ship.

    ----end

    New York Sun, March 13, 1886, Page 2, Column 4

    They Will Call on Soto

    The Filibustering Fourth Warders Expect him to Come Down with the Cash

    The ten filibusters from the steamship
    Santo Domingo split yesterday morning into
    two factions, the ragged and the more ragged,
    and came from the steamship's pier in Brooklyn
    to the Fourth ward by different ferries.
    The ragged refused to be seen in the streets
    with the more ragged. All hands were to
    rendezvous at Alderman Pat Divver's saloon in
    Chatham street. Sandy Dix and Kid Doran,
    however, had conspired to get possession
    of the Consul's certificate brought from
    Turks Island. It had been in the
    possession of John Whipple of Boston.
    The conspirators think they can raise some
    money on the strength of the certificate that
    they were abandoned at Turks Island because
    they would not go and filibuster for Marco
    Aurelio Soto, and they don't want the money
    to go to Boston.

    After Dix and the Kid had got possession of
    the paper yesterday, they dodged Whipple all
    day. Doran. Connors, and O'Conner went with
    the paper to the Mills' building, where they
    heard that W. E. Gould had his office. Gould
    is the man who engaged them to "pick
    rubber," and they wanted him to settle with
    them. They couldn't find him there or anywhere
    else.

    Everybody in the Fourth ward seemed to be
    glad to set them up for the boys yesterday.
    Before the shades of night fell over Case's
    liquor store at James and Madison streets,
    some of the filibusters did not know whether
    they were on Turks Island or on Cherry Hill.
    They had planned early in the day to have a
    meeting at 4 P. M., and then go to Soto's
    palace in Fifth avenue, and see if he were
    wiling to pay them for the trouble they had
    been put to, Soto is the ex-President of Honduras,
    and is at the bottom of the City of Mexico
    filibustering project. The boys were to meet
    in Widow Dunegan's kitchen at 33 James
    street, but there wasn't a quorum able to come
    to time. The pilgrimage to Soto's residence
    was put off until this morning, when it will be
    made without fail by Whippler, Gleason and
    Chris Dunegan.

    "It's no use of de hull crowd goln' along,"
    explained Gleason, "der make-up of some of
    der fellers would give Soto de grand scare."

    It leaked out yesterday from the filibusters
    that Marion Ray was to follow Wallace South
    as soon as Wallace located, and they were to be
    married.

    ----end

    New York Sun, March 14, 1886, Page 7, Column 4

    Filibusters Sign a Release

    Six of Them Get $15 Apiece by Promising
    Not to Bother Soto for Pay

    Six of the filibustering party of ten from
    Turk's Island got $15 apiece yesterday from
    Jones & Williams of 23 Old slip, the agents who
    shipped them. To get it they had to sign this
    agreement:

    New York, March 13, 1886.

    We, the undersigned, hereby agree, in confirmation of
    the money now to be paid, that we will give up all
    proceedings against the agents of the parties who sent us
    out and everybody else.

    The six signers were Dutchy Gleason, John
    Connors, Tom O'Connor, Dutchman Miller,
    Kid Doran, Fourth warders, and John Whipple,
    the Boston cook, who took part in the expedition.

    As tbe men were away thirty-five days, and
    had been promised $30 a month, and their
    board and clothing found, they wanted more
    than they got. but Jones and Wlllliams said that
    they had forfeited the rest by stopping at Turk's
    lsland, when they shipped for Guatemala, and
    they had to take the $15 or nothlng. The shipping
    agents intimated that they were paying
    them out of their own pocket, with little prospect
    of being reimbursed. But W, E. Gould, in
    behalf of Marco Amelio [sic] Soto, ex-President of
    Honduras, will, it is expected, square matters
    with the shipping firm.

    Fourth warders Christy Dunegan. Jim Bogan,
    and Sandy Dlx were not present at the
    meeting, and have not got their money yet,
    William Williams, Jones's man, did not sign
    the agreement. Jones will pay him more than
    $15 or get him a good job as a fireman.

    ----end

    Comment


    • A kind of anti-climactic adventure here. As for the $15.00 that some of them got, in 1886 that was like getting about $200.00 today. More buying power.

      Comment


      • Info about the forfeiture hearing regarding the City of Mexico.

        New York Sun, April 1, 1886, Page 1, Column 6

        THE ENGINEER, COOK, AND MATE

        They caused All the Trouble of the City of
        Mexico, Now Held at Key West.

        Lawyer W. W. Macfarland, who was called
        from town to Key West just a fortnight ago to
        secure the release of the City of Mexico and of
        her passengers, who had been arrested as filibusters
        by the United States man-of-war Galena,
        described the seizure of the steamer and
        the arrest of her passengers last night to a SUN
        reporter as being "very grotesque incidents in
        a wild sort of opera bouffe proceeding" before
        the judicial authorities at Key West. Lawyer
        Macfarland got home from his trip yesterday
        afternoon. He had gone to Key West in response
        to a telegram from A. D. Strauss A Co.,
        the agents of the City of Mexico.

        When he got to Key West he found the City
        of Mexico in the harbor, with the Galena alongside
        guarding her. He said that the City of
        Mexico went down to St Andrews with nothing
        more warlike aboard than a cargo of corn, and
        no more firearms than eleven pistols, five of
        which wouldn't go off even if the ownern tried
        to fire them.

        The trouble that the City of Mexico got into,
        Mr. Macfarland said, was owing to the efforts
        of the chief engineer, the cook, and the mate,
        the latter of whom was on the verge of delirium
        tremens all the voyage, to stir up a disturbance
        among the crew. They appeared to be under
        the impression that there was a great deal of
        American gold aboard and they wanted to get
        at it. When the steamer reached St. Andrews and
        discharged her cargo, the crew were induced to
        appeal to the American Consulate there to settle
        the dispute which the chief engineer told
        him existed between Capt. Kelly and the men.
        Capt. Kelly at this time was 700 miles from'
        Honduras, and had on board return mails for
        New York, and he intended to return as soon
        as he got his import cargo aboard. He explained
        to the Consul that no ground for trouble
        among the men existed, but, to his astonishment,
        the Consul sent word to Colon for a
        man-of-war to come down and take charge of
        the steamer.

        Then Commander Chester swooped down in
        the Galena, carried the City of Mexico into
        Key West, and filed one libel against her as a
        "prlze seizure," and another for being engaged
        in an expedition of war against Honduras.
        Then he arrested all the passengers. Mr. Macfarland
        says that the arrest of Mr. Soto was
        made by Commander Chester because Mr. Soto
        wouldn't make some sort of an affidavit that he
        wanted him to. Mr. Soto had been in an insane
        asylum, and he got so frightened, Mr.
        Macfarland says, that he became stark mad
        again and had to be put into a retreat.

        When the case came up before the District
        Court for hearing all the prisoners were
        promptly discharged, excepting Gen. Delgardo
        and Col. Morey. District Attorney Bethel, who
        had been in office just one day, insisted that
        these should be held for trial in this city on the
        charge of organizing a warlike expedition
        against a friendly power. They gave $2,000
        bail each to appear for trial, and Mr. Macfarland
        says they will appear whenever they are
        wanted.

        The Court continued the detention of the
        steamer itself, giving District Attorney Bethel
        until April 15 to get testimony from New York
        relative to her alleged illegal use as a filibuster.
        He appointed United States Commissioner
        Shields a Commissioner to take this testimony,
        and the document appointing him, with a memorandum
        of the witnesses whose testimony is
        wanted, was received by Commissioner Shields
        yesterday.

        Mr. Macfarland says that be is confident that
        not only will Gen. Delgardo and Col. Morey be
        acquitted, but that the steamer will be released
        as well.

        ---end

        New York Sun, April 3, 1886, Page 6, Column 2

        OUR FILIBUSTER SHIP

        Beginning the Inquiry About the Mission of the City of Mexico

        United States Commissioner Shields yesterday
        began the interrogatories sent by the
        United States Court in Florida in reference to
        the mission of the steamship City of Mexico,
        seized by the war vessel Galena and held at
        Key West as a filibuster. Col. G. E. P. Howard
        appeared for the Government. Lawyer W. W.
        Macfarland was counsel for the owners of the
        vessel, and Lawyer Abram H. Wakeman represented
        the Honduras Government, to overthrow
        which the steamship expedition is said
        to have been fitted out. Detective Jamas Mecham,
        who discovered the warlike nature of the
        vessel's voyage, was also present. No one else
        was allowed to attend the reference except the
        witnesses.

        The only witnesses examined were Frank J.
        Lord, one of the owners of the vessel, and
        Samuel H. Marks of 15 Broadway. They were
        questioned as to the chartering of the vessel,
        and the sort of cargo she carried. She was
        laden with corn. A. D. Strauss and Edward J.
        Austin are to be examined to-day.

        Gen. Delgardo, the leader of the expedition,
        and his Lieutenant, Col. Manuel Morel, are the
        only persons captured on the City of Mexico
        who were held to bail in Key West. Delgardo
        is a native of Honduras. Morel is a
        West India negro, more than six feet in height.
        He was employed by Gen. Aguillera [sic] in
        1876 in a filibustering expedition against
        Cuba. He and others sailed in tbe steamer
        Montezuma from a Central American port, and
        took possession of the ship after she got outside
        of port. Morel threw the Captain, a
        Spaniard, overboard, and he was drowned.
        The Spaniard frigate Isabella Cattolica chased
        the Montezuma, and she was scuttled, those on
        board escaping in open boats. Morel and
        Prado, a son of Gen. Prado of Peru, went in
        the same boat and found repose on an island
        in the South Atlantic.

        ----end

        New York Sun, April 6, 1886, Page 3, Column 3

        TO ASSASSINATE BOGRAN

        THE ALLEGED OBJECT OF THE
        FILIBUSTERING EXPEDITION.

        James Brogran Tells Commissioner Shields
        his Experiences--Testimony to Show that
        Soto Fitted Out the City of Mexico

        James Brogan, one of the Fourth ward
        filibusters who sailed from here on the San
        Domingo two months ago to make war on the
        little Central American republic of Honduras,
        narrated before United States Commissioner
        Shlelds yesterday the history of the Fourth
        warders' part in the intercepted expedition.
        His testimony was taken in answer to interrogatories
        sent here from the United States
        Court in Florida, where a suit is pending for
        the forfeiture to the Government of the steamship
        City of Mexico for violation of the neutrality
        laws. Brogan told the story already
        published in THE SUN about how the Fourth
        warders were induced to embark, and the
        allurements which had been offered them. He
        sald that James Halliday had introduced him
        to a man named Gould, who was the confidentional
        agent of Mr. Soto, the former President of
        Honduras.

        When the San Domingo got outside of land
        James Halliday distributed self-cocking revolvers
        to each man. Brogan testified that he
        asked Halllday what it all meant, and the latter
        told him that the men were wanted to start a
        revolution in Honduras and overthrow the
        Government. The announcement, as Brogan
        expresses it, kind of knocked him out at first,
        for he did not know where Honduras was located
        and what sort of people inhabited it. He
        asked Halliday for fuller details, and the latter
        then, he swears, told him that the intention
        was to assassinate Gen. Bogran, who
        was President of Honduras, and to
        declared [sic] ex-President Soto the ruler of the
        country. Brogan avers that he did not mind
        the shindy that it was proposed to have, but
        that when it came to cold-blooded assassination
        he sort of weakened on the job. All but
        four of his companions shared his views. Halliday
        told Brogan that Gen. Delgardo was to
        command the City of Mexico. The involuntary
        filibusters were landed on Turk's Island in the
        Caribbean Sea, and were informed that the
        Norwegian steamship Fram would be there and
        take them to the steamship City of Mexico, the
        vessel intended to land the expedition in Honduras.

        After they landed on Turk's Island all but one
        declined to proceed any further. They were
        brought back to New York on the San Domingo.
        The four who remained on Turk's Island were
        taken on board of the Norwegian steamship
        Fram, which sailed from this port about Dec.
        21, about the date that the City of Mexico
        cleared.

        William A. De Long of the firm of Jex & Co.,
        who own warehouses and are largely interested
        in shipping interests at Corn Island, the point
        at which it is charged the City of Mexico was to
        be equipped with arms and ammunition for
        the expedition, was called before the Commissioner
        to testify as to certaln admissions alleged
        to have been made to him by Samuel H.
        Marks of A. D. Strauss & Co., agents for the
        steamships City of Mexico and the San Domingo.
        Mr. De Long said that Marks admitted to
        him that ex-President Soto was the real owner
        of the City of Mexico, and that his firm were
        merely agents; that Soto paid for the fitting out
        of the vessel, and that all the firm got was the
        commission. Mr. De Long said that Jex &
        Co.'s manager at Corn Island kept them fully
        informed of the movements of the steamship
        City of Mexico and the Fram, the vessel which
        conveyed the arms from here, while they were
        lying off that place.

        Gen. Uelgardo. who was to command the
        expedition, appeared at Corn Island with a letter
        of introduction from A. D, Strauss & Co. to
        Jex & Co.'s manager, commending Gen. Delgardo
        to him. and informing the manager that
        a lot of arms had been consigned to him which
        be was to turn over to the City of Mexico or deliver
        to Gen. Delgardo's order. The arms were
        shipped from here in the steamship Alpino,
        but for some reason never got further than
        Jamaica. Gen. Delgardo. who was to command
        the filibusters, sailed from Corn Island with his
        Lieutenants, Col. Manuel Morel. and young
        Soto, a nephew of the ex-President, on the 2d
        of February. Before his departure he left a
        letter for Mr. Eberstadt, an agent for Stranss &
        Co. at Corn Island, saying that he was going in
        the Clty of Mexico to Corn Island, where the
        vessel and those on board were subsequently
        captured by the United States frigate Galena,
        and conveyed to Key West. There were on
        board 200 laborers who were got at Fitzpatrick's
        labor agency in this city.

        It was testified that the steamship Fram
        which sailed from here in December to join
        the City of Mexico, was laden with one piece of
        cannon, a lot of shells, hand grenades, 800
        boxes of cartridges, fifty cases of rifles, five
        cases of carbines, a lot of tripods and primers,
        ten cases of valises to be used as knapsacks,
        800 barrels of flour, aud a lot of shirts for the
        filibusters to wear.

        Mr. Fraser, a Broadway dealer, testified to
        selling the cannon and hand grenades, and
        that they were bought, he understood, for Soto.

        The Commissioner will go on with his hearing
        to-day.

        ---end

        New York Sun, April 8, 1886, Page 1, Column 7

        Witnesses Against the Filibusters

        Purser Wiley and Engineer John McCann of
        the filibustering steamship City of Mexico arrived in
        the steamship Lampasas yesterday, and were held in
        bail by Commissioner Shields to appear as witnesses at
        the trial of Gen. Delgardo and Col. Morel, the leaders of
        the expedition. Delgardo and Morel, it is said, have decamped
        to Europe.

        ----end

        New York Sun, April 10, 1886, Page 2, Column 7

        Soto Expects a Call from his Filibusters

        Mr. Marco Aurelio Soto, ex-President of
        Honduras, denied last evening the report that Gen. Delgardo
        Col. Morel, and Senor Mariano Soto, from the filibuster
        City of Mexico, were or had been in the city. He
        said that he expected them to arrive in a day or two,
        when without doubt they would call upon him, as they
        were close friends of his. The fact that the gentlemen
        named had spent several hours at a boarding house in
        East Thirteenth street Mr. Soto dismissed with a shrug,
        and a repetition of the remark that the story was false.

        At the house in East Thirteenth street it waa said thai
        the three filibusters had spent part of Thursday there.
        They are under bonds to appear for trial here on May 2.

        ----end

        New York Sun, April 27, 1886, Page 1, Column 3

        Tne City of Mexico Forfeited

        KEY WEST, April 26.--In the case of the
        steamer City of Mexico, libelled by the Government as
        a prize and also for forfeiture for violation of the neutrality
        laws, Judge Locke dismissed the prize libel, as
        there could be no prize without the existence of a
        specific law, but decreed the forfeiture of the vessel on
        the grounds of probable intention to violate the law
        referring to the outfit of arms and men and intention to
        receive other cargoes at points in tbe Caribbean Sea.

        ----end

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TradeName View Post
          Info about the forfeiture hearing regarding the City of Mexico.


          New York Sun, April 3, 1886, Page 6, Column 2

          OUR FILIBUSTER SHIP

          Beginning the Inquiry About the Mission of the City of Mexico

          United States Commissioner Shields yesterday
          began the interrogatories sent by the
          United States Court in Florida in reference to
          the mission of the steamship City of Mexico,
          seized by the war vessel Galena and held at
          Key West as a filibuster. Col. G. E. P. Howard
          appeared for the Government. Lawyer W. W.
          Macfarland was counsel for the owners of the
          vessel, and Lawyer Abram H. Wakeman represented
          the Honduras Government, to overthrow
          which the steamship expedition is said
          to have been fitted out. Detective Jamas Mecham,
          who discovered the warlike nature of the
          vessel's voyage, was also present. No one else
          was allowed to attend the reference except the
          witnesses.

          The only witnesses examined were Frank J.
          Lord, one of the owners of the vessel, and
          Samuel H. Marks of 15 Broadway. They were
          questioned as to the chartering of the vessel,
          and the sort of cargo she carried. She was
          laden with corn. A. D. Strauss and Edward J.
          Austin are to be examined to-day.

          Gen. Delgardo, the leader of the expedition,
          and his Lieutenant, Col. Manuel Morel, are the
          only persons captured on the City of Mexico
          who were held to bail in Key West. Delgardo
          is a native of Honduras. Morel is a
          West India negro, more than six feet in height.
          He was employed by Gen. Aguillera [sic] in
          1876 in a filibustering expedition against
          Cuba. He and others sailed in tbe steamer
          Montezuma from a Central American port, and
          took possession of the ship after she got outside
          of port. Morel threw the Captain, a
          Spaniard, overboard, and he was drowned.
          The Spaniard frigate Isabella Cattolica chased
          the Montezuma, and she was scuttled, those on
          board escaping in open boats. Morel and
          Prado, a son of Gen. Prado of Peru, went in
          the same boat and found repose on an island
          in the South Atlantic.
          ----end
          Again, there is very little for me to add to the information on this forgotten minor plot of history, but the portion that I emphasized here is curious. If Lieutenant Col. Morel was working with one "Prado, a son of General Prado of Peru" (at least that is the story or rumor reported in the newspaper here) in 1886, that same year was the one when Paris was to have a murder case that rivalled the Pranzini Affair of 1887 in interest - in which the killer was one Prado, whom Major Arthur Griffiths said (in "Mysteries of the Police and Crime" was the son of the President of Peru of that same name. Again we don't know how true this is (the murderer "Prado" used several aliases). But it is interesting that two rather dubious characters of that name claim connections to a prominent personage in Peru. The incident involving Lt. Col. Morel with "his" Prado was in 1876, when they were involved in the seizure of a vessel on it's way to Cuba, and the murder (by drowning) of it's Captain. Maybe it is the same scoundrel adventurer.

          In December 1888 Prado the Parisian murderer was guillotined in Paris with a large crowd outside to mark the occasion. One of those who did this was a then obscure artist, Paul Gauguin, whom the month before had broken up with his roommate Vincent Van Gogh in Arles, France. This led to Van Gogh committing one of the two most infamous physical acts of mutilation (though this was self-mutilation) that the month of November 1888 is remembered for.

          Jeff

          Comment


          • The Peruvian Prados

            Any Peruvians, Chilians, Ecuadorians, or Bolivians noting this comment - take note that in the United States, knowledge of Peru's military confrontations with it's neighbors are nearly totally unknown. We have a very "United States" "centric" view of the Western Hemisphere here.

            The Prado family of Peru is (in it's way) similar to the Kennedy family in the United States. It has produced (as far as "Wikipedia" has shown me) two Presidents of Peru, one Prime Minister, one highly powerful banker, and a dead war hero (a mariner who got killed in a major Peruvian defeat).

            In 1826 Mariano Ignacio Prado was born. He was a military man, and in the 1860s was involved in the overthrow of a sitting Peruvian President. This led to his first of three terms as Peru's President (April 1865 to June 1865). However, he was Prime Minister of Peru from November 1865 to June 1867, which was coinciding with his second Presidential term in November 1865. In the middle of this combined honeymoon between the Presidency and Premiership, as a General he won a battle against the Spanish at Callao in May 1866 (making one wonder if he was General-in-Chief of the Army, or Grand Poohbah or a one man band as well!!). Senor Prado remained President after he left the Premiership until June 1868. The diplomatic tone of the article on him said the public was sort of tired of him holding the Presidential office (one wonders why!!!).

            He remained an important figure in Peruvian politics, and (incredible as this may seem) was elected President for the third time in 1876. This was a major historic era for Peru, her neighbor Bolivia, and Chile. The latter was building up her military muscles, with German soldiers training her army (even adopting the spiked helmets) and with the acquisition of a powerful navy (indeed, it remained powerful for decades, and in the 1890s was - for a few years - more modern and powerful than that of the United States!). There was a complicated territorial dispute between Peru, Bolivia, and Chile (and - to some extent - the U.S.) over land near the "Guano" Islands. "Guano" (if you are unaware) is bird "sh-t" but it was as valuable in that period as gold or silver or copper mines (which Chile has) or tin mines (like Bolivia). "Guano" is used for it's rich nitrates, important in agriculture but also in manufacturing explosives. These islands were loaded with bird based deposits. All of the countries had claims to them due to sailing records and landings. Fortunately the U.S. did not get pulled into the coming military mess (possibly had President Garfield not been assassinated we would have, as his Secretary of State Blaine was keeping tabs on the war over the islands). The war broke out in 1879 and would last until 1883. Peru and Bolivia found common cause in the war as Chile also had designs on the portion of land to the North of it that was Bolivia's only outlet to the Pacific.

            It was hard fought but Chile beat the other two countries. There were naval battles, battles in the deserts to the north of Chile and in the conflicted land of Bolivia. There was also a few battles in Peru.

            President Prado had looked over Peruvian and Bolivian military preparedness, and realized that he had to do something to even the chances against the better prepared Chile. Gathering funds from the Peruvian treasury, he headed for France and hoped to purchase more military armor and ammo, and get more foreign loans and assistance. The nation was left in the hands of the Vice President, but the public felt Prado was a crook and had fled with national money out of greed and cowardice. They replaced him and put a price on his head. When Prado heard this, he went to Chile and offered his services. They made him a Chilean general, and he put the Peruvian money into one of the unused copper mines.

            His oldest son was Leoncio Prado Gutierrez (1855 - 1883). He had remained behind. A mariner, he joined the army and held the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. Possibly because his father was now a Chilean general, he had promised not to fight in a major battle on Peruvian soil at Huamuchuco in 1883, but he showed up and was in the battle. This major battle (one of the last of the war) ended with the Chileans pulling a victory out of what had seemed an incredible defeat. The Peruvians had been well placed on a height, and the Chileans had been mowed down in many charges - sort of like Bunker Hill in the American Revolution. But the result was exactly the same - the Peruvians had to win early by inflicting such heavy casualties the Chileans would retreat. It didn't happen, and the Peruvians ran out of ammo. The Chileans charged up, and besides having more ammunition they also had bayonets which the Peruvians lacked. The Peruvians had to use their rifles as clubs. One can imagine how effective that was. The surviving Peruvians retreated. Leoncio was among the dead (and is still regarded as a hero in Peru to this day).

            Peru lost it's claims to the Guano Islands, which Chile now owned. Chile also boxed in poor Bolivia which now was one of the two landlocked Latin American nations (the other being Paraguay). Bolivians still resent the Chileans conquest of their territory - it remains a sore point between the two countries. I find it odd that whenever the U.S. gets condemned (justifiably) for snatching so much of Mexico in the Texas War for Independence, and in the Mexican-American War of 1846-48, little is said (at least to our ears) of this kind of land grabbing between Latin American states. There is a degree of a double standard here.

            Leoncio's father did not return to Lima. He probably would have been taking his life into his hands if he had due to his switching sides. All the money (which technically was Peruvian government property) was taken out of the Chilean mine it was buried or hidden in, and it went with ex-President Mariano Prado to Paris, where he lived until his death in 1901. But he had a new wife, and they had a son in 1889. This was Manuel Prado Ugartele.

            Manuel Prado became a highly successful banker (one wonders how he got the money to start his bank with!!!). He actually did return to Lima, and set up his bank there. Also he entered politics, and in 1939 was elected President of Peru. He would hold this office until 1945. The new President Prado was known for winning the first of three wars (in this century) between Peru and Ecuador over some disputed land in 1941. He was the first Latin American President to break off diplomatic relations with Germany and the Axis in 1942. He always was proud that he was the first to do that. Staying in politics, he resumed the Presidency for a second time in 1956 to 1962. Apparently he was quite popular (the Wikipedia article on him says he was allied to a left of center party so the people saw him as a friend, despite being very rich. He died in 1967.

            If the French murderer Prado was related to the Peruvian President I could not find any proof, but the close ties of the 19th Century Peruvian President to Paris suggests that maybe there was a connection.

            Jeff
            Last edited by Mayerling; 02-13-2016, 02:04 AM.

            Comment


            • From a Welsh Newspaper

              The following was in the South Wales "Echo" of 19 November 1888, on page 3

              "THE IDENTITY OF PRADO"
              [Reuter's Telegram]

              "Paris, Saturday - "The "Soir" announces this evening that it has learned from an absolutely trustworthy source that the real name of the convicted murderer of Marie Aguenant is Prado. He was born in Porto Rico, and is the son of an American officer who led the last insurrection on that island against Spanish rule."

              Whether this is the actual story of Prado the murderer's ancestry is hard to tell. Prior to 1898 I never heard of any attempted insurrection on the island of Puerto Rico (as it is now spelled), but then most of the filibustering incidents of the 1870s and 1880s and 1890s have been forgotten by history - as we have recently been reading regarding the 1886 attempt on Honduras.

              Jeff

              Comment


              • The Spanish language version of has an article on Leoncio Prado Gutiérrez with a section on the seizure of the steamer Moctezuma which lists Manuel Morey as a participant. A Google translation to English is here.

                There's a Spanish language play published in New York in 1877 which lists Manuel Morey as a character.

                El Moctezuma: Epopeya en accion en tres actos y en verso (New York: E. Perez, 1877), link
                By Joaquin Maria Perez


                A contemporaneous account allegedly by one of the participants.

                The Abbeville Press and Banner [South Carolina], January 24, 1877, Page 4, Column 4

                The Captured Spanish Steamer.

                The story has been told of the capture
                of the Spanish steamer Moctezuma by
                Cubans, but not in detail. It was as follows:

                A party of eleven Cubans left
                St. Domingo for Santiago de Cuba on
                the steamer. Their arms consisted of
                revolvers and swords, the latter concealed
                in trunks, while some had bowie
                knives. Prado, chief of the expedition,
                disposed the men in position, when dinner
                was being served, at half-past five.
                Three of the party, led by Prado,
                summoned the officers of the steamer to
                surrender. One of the party says:

                The signal of each man to his post was
                given, and Prado, with myself, each with
                a revolver in his hand, entered the cabin,
                while Morey guarded the entrance to
                the door. Prado told the assembled officers
                that he demanded the surrender of
                the vessel. They, seeing such a small
                attacking party, commenced to resist.
                Several shots were then fired by us to
                intimidate the Spaniards, but with no
                intent to kill. The resistance became
                more determined, and Prado having been
                wounded, it was found necessary to take
                life to he successful in our mission. Firing
                in earnest then took place. The
                first to fall was Captain Cocho, with two '
                shots in his head. Then came the steward
                who had wounded Prado, who recived [sic]
                a bullet in his heart; a Catalonian
                passenger and a sailor who resisted were
                also killed. Among the wounded were a
                fireman, who received a shot in the arm;
                the storekeeper and a Cuban passenger,
                who was accidentally wounded. These
                were the total casualties, and we were
                masters of the Moctezuma and her officers
                and crew, numbering some seventy
                souls. There were also a number of
                passengers, among them being a Spanish
                official connected with the star department
                of the island of Porto Rico.
                We fastened the hands of some of our
                prisoners for a short time, while we held
                a council of war. Soon afterward we
                released them. Meanwhile the working
                of the ship was conducted as before.
                On the following day the passengers and
                part of her crew were landed near Port
                au Paix on the northern coast of Hayti.
                Returning, however, to the steamer, she
                continued on her course, subsequently
                sending Gutierrez and myself ashore in
                a boat with messages for the republic of
                Cuba and the agents of said republic.

                The Cespedes, the name the steamer
                is now known by, is no pirate, for she
                carries letters of marque. She is commanded
                by men ready and willing to
                sacrifice their lives for Cuban
                independence. I cannot conclude without
                expressing the warmest thanks to Peru
                for the noble sons she has given us to
                help us in our struggle for liberty.

                ---end

                In the New York case, Delgado and Morey jumped bail, and both were reported dead later in 1886.

                New York Sun, may 5, 1886, Page 4, Column 2

                Where is Filibuster Delgado?

                Manuel Morel, one of the allged leaders of
                the steamship City of Mexico Honduras filibustering
                expedition, gave $3,000 cash bail yesterday before
                Commissioner Shields to appear for trial on the 12th. Soto,
                ex-President of Honduras, is said to have furnished the
                money. Delgado did not appear. He has one day more
                in which to turn up without forfeiting his bail.

                ---end

                New York Sun, May 12, 1886, Page 4, Column 1

                COL. MOREL LEAVES TOWN, TOO

                It Looks as if Soto's Filibusters had a Prejudice Against Courts of Law

                Col. Manuel Morel, one of the leaders of
                Soto's filibustering expedition against Honduras, quit
                the city on Friday with the intention, so officers of the
                Spanish Consular service say, of not returning to stand
                trial on the indictment presented against him. He had
                put up a certified check for $3,000 as bail. There was a
                suspicion that the Spanish Government might ask for
                his delivery to it for a homicide committed on the
                Caribbean Sea on a Spanish vessel. The story is that Morel,
                [and] a son of Gen. Prado, and others were employed by Gen.
                Aguillera [sic], the Cuban revolutionist, to conduct an
                expedition against Cuba in 1876, and took passage in the
                Spanish mail steamship Montezuma, sailing from a
                Central American port. When the vessel reached the
                Caribbean the filibusters seized it, after a fight with the
                officers and crew, in which many were killed, Capt.
                Cacho made a strong resistance, but was overpowered,
                thrown overboard, and drowned. The officers of the
                Spanish frigate Isabella Cattolica learned of the capture
                and gave chase to the filibusters, who scuttled and set
                fire to the Montezuma, and made their escape in open
                boats. Gen Delgado, leader of Soto's expedition,
                forfeited his bail last week.

                ----end


                New York Sun, May 13, 1886, Page 1, Column 5

                Delgado's and Morel's Bail Forfeited

                Gen. Delgado and Col. Morel, the leaders of
                the steamship City of Mexico expedition against
                Honduras, did not appear at the United States Circuit Court
                yesterday to plead to indictments. Their bail was declared
                forfeited. Morel's bondsman was Ramon Pine of
                17 Broadway. He gave a certified check for $3,000.
                Counsel have no hope that the filibusters will return.

                ---end

                Appletons' Annual Cyclopaedia and Register of Important Events of the Year 1886, Volume 11 (New York: D. Appleton, 1887), Page 424

                Honduras

                [...]

                Events of 1886—-On February 14 the American man-of-war “Galena” captured, near the Colombian island of San Andres. the American steamer “City of Mexico,” with an alleged filibustering party and arms on board, said to have Honduras for their destination, and brought them into Key West, where the vessel was Iibeled and the leaders—-Gen. Delgado. Col. Morey, M. Soto, and Capt. Kelly—-were prosecuted in the United States District Court. This attempt having failed, ex-President Marco Aurelio Soto left New York for Costa Rica, and thence sent a small revolutionary force of 77 devoted political adherents to Honduras, for the purpose of stirring up the people to revolt against the constituted authorities; but not a man could be induced to join them. Meanwhile the Government force, sent against them, defeated the little band on August 18, at La Mani, eighteen miles from Comayagua, the Cuban Col. Morey being killed, together with Velasquez and seven other chiefs and officers. Four leaders—-Gen. E. Delgado, Lieut Col. Indalecio Garcia, Commander Miguel Cortéz, and Lieut. Gabriel Loyano—-were shot at Comayagua on October 18. President Bogran offered to spare Gen. Delgado’s life, on condition of a promise not to take up arms against Honduras again; but the offer was spurned.

                ---end

                The court's decision in the forfeiture of the City of Mexico.
                The Federal Reporter, Volumes 27-28 (St. Paul: West Publishing Co., 1886), Pages 148-155

                The City of Mexico
                (District Court, S.D. Florida. April 19, 1886.



                A related lawsuit.

                The New York State Reporter (Albany: W. C. Little, 1890), Pages 448-452

                William Jex et al, App'lts, v. Adolph D. Straus et al, Resp'ts.'

                (Court of Appeals, Second Division, Filed October 7, 1890.)



                Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States (Washington, DC: GPO, 1886), Pages 138-142

                Comment


                • Fascinating. Leoncio Prado was (apparently) a perennial revolutionary in Peru, Cuba, and even the Philippine Islands. And may be considered a martyr, possibly murdered by Chileans when he was wounded. Col. Morel appears to be also a perennial Cuban revolutionary, and it cost him in the end - he too became a martyr.

                  Jeff

                  Comment


                  • In 1890 the leader of a London gang known as the "Bowery Boys" threatened to "Jack the Ripper" a pub operator.

                    Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper (London, England),
                    Sunday, September 14, 1890; Issue 2495.

                    Page 4, Column 2

                    POLICE INTELLIGENCE

                    [...]

                    THAMES [Police Court]

                    [...]

                    A STATE OF THINGS NOT TO BE
                    TOLERATED.--William Whitwell, alias
                    Woodey, who had suffered 18 months'
                    imprisonment for killing a man, and who
                    was known as one of the most desperate
                    characters in the East-end was charged
                    on a warrant with using threats towards
                    Mrs. Kruze, of the Horn of Plenty,
                    Market-street, Poplar, whereby she went
                    in bodily fear.--Mr. George Hay Young
                    prosecuted and stated that the prisoner
                    was a man who never did any work,
                    and was the leader of a gang of
                    roughs known as the "Bowery Boys."
                    Mrs. Kruze, a widow, said she knew the
                    prisoner as loafing around the house. On
                    Monday he and six or seven others came
                    in. He wanted her to fill the pots with
                    beer, and she refused to serve them. He
                    then said he would split open her head
                    with a pot and "Jack the Ripper" her.
                    He said he would have her and "undo"
                    her, and did not mind doing a "stretch"
                    for her. The prisoner then stationed
                    members of his gang at each door and
                    prevented customers coming in. Her
                    house was boycotted for upwards of an
                    hour. The next day the prisoner again
                    threatened her, and she had to have
                    five police-constables to protect her.--
                    Mr. Dickson said it was outrageous in
                    this country that persons should be
                    frightened from going about their
                    business. That sort of thing must be stopped,
                    and the prisoner would have to find two
                    sureties in 25l. each or go to prison for
                    four months.

                    ----end

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TradeName View Post
                      In 1890 the leader of a London gang known as the "Bowery Boys" threatened to "Jack the Ripper" a pub operator.

                      Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper (London, England),
                      Sunday, September 14, 1890; Issue 2495.

                      Page 4, Column 2

                      POLICE INTELLIGENCE

                      [...]

                      THAMES [Police Court]

                      [...]

                      A STATE OF THINGS NOT TO BE
                      TOLERATED.--William Whitwell, alias
                      Woodey, who had suffered 18 months'
                      imprisonment for killing a man, and who
                      was known as one of the most desperate
                      characters in the East-end was charged
                      on a warrant with using threats towards
                      Mrs. Kruze, of the Horn of Plenty,
                      Market-street, Poplar, whereby she went
                      in bodily fear.--Mr. George Hay Young
                      prosecuted and stated that the prisoner
                      was a man who never did any work,
                      and was the leader of a gang of
                      roughs known as the "Bowery Boys."
                      Mrs. Kruze, a widow, said she knew the
                      prisoner as loafing around the house. On
                      Monday he and six or seven others came
                      in. He wanted her to fill the pots with
                      beer, and she refused to serve them. He
                      then said he would split open her head
                      with a pot and "Jack the Ripper" her.
                      He said he would have her and "undo"
                      her, and did not mind doing a "stretch"
                      for her. The prisoner then stationed
                      members of his gang at each door and
                      prevented customers coming in. Her
                      house was boycotted for upwards of an
                      hour. The next day the prisoner again
                      threatened her, and she had to have
                      five police-constables to protect her.--
                      Mr. Dickson said it was outrageous in
                      this country that persons should be
                      frightened from going about their
                      business. That sort of thing must be stopped,
                      and the prisoner would have to find two
                      sureties in 25l. each or go to prison for
                      four months.

                      ----end
                      My sympathy for the poor lady. One would like to know if somebody ever stuck a shiv into the body of Mr. Whitwell, alias "Woodey". He'd have deserved it. Also, why did he and his gang choose the name "Bowery Boys"?

                      Jeff

                      Comment


                      • The Bowery Boys were a New York gang known for their rudeness to British authors.

                        New Amsterdam Gazette, March 31, 1884, Page 15

                        THE BOWERY IN EARLY DAYS.

                        When Charles Dickens came to New York he was very anxious to learn some particulars regarding these Bowery boys. One day, dressed in the garb of a countryman, he came upon some of the young men standing near the Bowery Theater. He accosted them and commenced a conversation as follows: "I say, young men!" "Well, what is it?" they asked, looking sharply at his singular figure. "I say, young men, I wish to go to the Fulton Ferry." "Why in h--- don't you go then?" was their prompt answer. Dickens had obtained a sufficiently true insight into their character, and went his way.





                        The Guardian (Philadelphia), March 1874, Page 91

                        SOFT ANSWERS.

                        It is said that on one of Thackeray's visits to New York, he was eager to form the acquaintance of the Bowery boys, who have acquired quite a reputation for rude repartee. Perhaps he was in search of material for a future work of fiction. Walking through the Bowery, he at length found one of these little Arabs on a street corner. Here was a chance to study the Bowery boy. Thackeray was a very dignified gentleman, whose polished manners and stately bearing were calculated to impress even his equals. How would they impress the boy?

                        He opened the conversation by asking the way to another street.

                        "Boy, I should like very much to go to Broadway."

                        "Well, why the h--- don't you go there," was his quick reply. There ended Thackeray's study of the Bowery boys.

                        Comment


                        • Wikipedia distinguishes between the actors appearing in 20th century motion pictures (1946-1958) as "The Bowery Boys", (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys) and "the 19th century nativist gang in New York City" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowery_Boys )

                          The movies were fond of tough-talking New Yorkers, and The Bowery Boys had been preceded by "The Dead End Kids", "The Little Tough Guys", and "The East Side Kids".
                          Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                          ---------------
                          Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                          ---------------

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TradeName View Post
                            The Bowery Boys were a New York gang known for their rudeness to British authors.

                            New Amsterdam Gazette, March 31, 1884, Page 15

                            THE BOWERY IN EARLY DAYS.

                            When Charles Dickens came to New York he was very anxious to learn some particulars regarding these Bowery boys. One day, dressed in the garb of a countryman, he came upon some of the young men standing near the Bowery Theater. He accosted them and commenced a conversation as follows: "I say, young men!" "Well, what is it?" they asked, looking sharply at his singular figure. "I say, young men, I wish to go to the Fulton Ferry." "Why in h--- don't you go then?" was their prompt answer. Dickens had obtained a sufficiently true insight into their character, and went his way.





                            The Guardian (Philadelphia), March 1874, Page 91

                            SOFT ANSWERS.

                            It is said that on one of Thackeray's visits to New York, he was eager to form the acquaintance of the Bowery boys, who have acquired quite a reputation for rude repartee. Perhaps he was in search of material for a future work of fiction. Walking through the Bowery, he at length found one of these little Arabs on a street corner. Here was a chance to study the Bowery boy. Thackeray was a very dignified gentleman, whose polished manners and stately bearing were calculated to impress even his equals. How would they impress the boy?

                            He opened the conversation by asking the way to another street.

                            "Boy, I should like very much to go to Broadway."

                            "Well, why the h--- don't you go there," was his quick reply. There ended Thackeray's study of the Bowery boys.
                            The two anecdotes sound very much alike in the dialogue repartee. Only difference is that one is with Dickens asking for directions to the "Fulton Ferry" and one is with Thackeray asking for Broadway. Dickens made his first, controversial visit to the U.S. in 1842, in which he was lionized but found the Americans too rough for his tastes, and hypocrites because of the existence of slavery in "the land of the free" (ignoring the fact that in the slavery - abolished British empire people of African ancestry were lucky to be treated as third class citizens for most of the 19th and 20th Centuries; Dickens wasn't alone in this national hypocrisy of Great Britain, for many American abolitionists closed their eyes about it, including Frederick Douglas and William Lloyd Garrison). Dickens published "American Notes for General Circulation" in 1842, and made thousands of outspoken enemies in the U.S.

                            Thackeray made his visit in 1852, visiting the major cities and the White House (he spent an evening at a soiree by President Millard Fillmore). His reactions to Americans were friendlier, and his 1855 novel, "The Virginians" (his sequel to the better remembered, "The History of Henry Esmond") is the first major British novel in which George Washington appeared in any role - and a positive one at that).

                            My guess is the anecdote (if true at all) was originally an incident involving Charles Dickens.

                            Dicken's "American Notes" was not the only negative book on the U.S. Fanny Trollope wrote a book on the U.S. in the 1830s after her attempt to open a large store in Cincinatti failed. Fanny was the mother of Anthony Trollope and his less recalled brother and novelist Theodore Adolphus Trollope.

                            Most British travelers (Thackeray excepted) were negative in discussing the U.S. as uncouth, etc. Then it changed in the 1840s when novelist James Fenimore Cooper wrote "Homeward Bound" in the first of two books contrasting a family's bad experiences in Britain and in the U.S. (the sequel is "Home As Found"). These two volumes are not generally well recalled like the "Leatherstocking" novels, or "The Spy" or "The Pilot". An even better attack was in 1857 when our Consul to Liverpool, Nathaniel Hawthorne, wrote "Our Old Home" giving his sharp dislike for British foibles.

                            The situation improved later in the century - Henry James not only enjoying Britain, but ending up living there and (in World War I) becoming a British citizen.

                            It did not always work well. In the 1880s Rudyard Kipling married an American woman, and went to live in Vermont. There he worked with his brother-in-law on a novel dealing with Indians in pre-Revolutionary American, which is not remembered too well. Kipling and his brother-in-law had a bad relationship (the brother-in-law was an alcoholic) and it soured Kipling about life in the U.S.

                            Jeff
                            Last edited by Mayerling; 02-22-2016, 03:46 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                              Wikipedia distinguishes between the actors appearing in 20th century motion pictures (1946-1958) as "The Bowery Boys", (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys) and "the 19th century nativist gang in New York City" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowery_Boys )

                              The movies were fond of tough-talking New Yorkers, and The Bowery Boys had been preceded by "The Dead End Kids", "The Little Tough Guys", and "The East Side Kids".
                              Hi Pat,

                              Can you imagine a movie set in the 19th Century where Dickens or Thackeray enters a 19th Century soda shop and has the conversation in those anecdotes with either Leo Gorcey or Huntz Hall (in correct 19th Century costume)?

                              The 19th Century gangs (from the notorious "Five Point" area of slums in lower Manhattan) are the same group from whom "Bill the Butcher" in "Gangs of New York" (Daniel Day Lewis) arose from.

                              Jeff

                              Comment


                              • ^^^^ LOL!

                                I have seen "Gangs of New York", but didn't know the name of the American gang. Interesting it spread to England, too.
                                Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                                ---------------
                                Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                                ---------------

                                Comment

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