Joseph Silver is NO Ripper (Please Read)

[Alex Silver]

Hi guys, my names Alex and i just joined this forum because i would like to say something and also warn you to please not buy a book.

My great grandfather is a guy called Joe (Joseph) Silver and some people have claimed he is Jack The Ripper which is just a complete and utter disgrace and total nonsense. I use to live in Durban in South Africa for 24 years and Joseph had a few wifes there and we have some relatives in Cape Town also. I was talking to my dad about it recently and he is disgusted. A South African writer claimed my grandfather was Jack the Ripper and he published it in his book and to behonest the guy should be hanged.. he is a disgrace and a money making conman. He basically sold the book on the chapters he wrote about Joseph being the Ripper.

My dad told me that Joseph only lived in London for 4 months in a place called Clerkenwell... in 1885. He lived in South Africa most of his life..but did travel to France and Was born in Poland. The reason he was in London at this time was because he was quite young so he could be paid little for building works.. he was a group of about 25 Polish boys and young men paid to build some places in Clerkenwell.

I only found this forum by chance on Google and noticed people were talking him up as a suspect which isn't suprising because of the book that was written about him.. but like i said the book is a load of rubbish.. my dad was intervieed for the book but declined. It is not a nice thing for relatives to have to read and quite frankly its a total disgrace and insult to his memory. was he a pimp? Yes but no murderer... he was mostly into gay prostituation anyway!.. my dad said that in South Africa at the time gay prostituation was just as popular as women Prostitution if not more. Alot of people don't know but in victorian times gay prostituation was huge.. i don't know about England but in South Africa it was huge.. and he did alot of women prostituation but also gay Prostitution. He never hurt anyone..he was just a money maker.

Very very sad for people to write about someone they know nothing about. yeah he had his problems but he was no slayer and was definatley not in london in 1888. very angry when i recently saw him suggested as a ripper because of this stupid book written by this stupid author who has no clue what he is going on about. My dad actually has a diary of a guy called Ralph Underwood who was one of Joseph's best friends and in it he talks about him and my grandfather building a row of houses in Cape Town South Africa from december 1887 - February 1889. So what i am basically trying to say is my grandfather was a builder like i am, he did little things on the side like little money scams and some pimp activity but alot of people did in South Africa in those times. Regards Alex

P.S - The guy who wrote it is Charles van Onselen, so if you ever see the book don't read it as it's just nonsense and a money making scam. BUT more than that it's a gross insult. I don't know much about the Jack Ripper case, i only know the basics however can assure you that Joseph Silver is 100000% not the guy you are looking for. Thank you for listening guys

[The Good Michael]

Hi,

I think you'll find that most of us agree with you, but I want to ask one thing: What would have been your reaction had you found out that Joseph Silver was actually the Ripper? Would it have been something that you would have wanted to hide from the public, or would you have gone public with any personal information? The reason I ask is that I wouldn't care about anyone knowing it if it was true about my family. If it was all made up, I'd defend the guy.

Mike

[Alex Silver]

Hi,

I think you'll find that most of us agree with you, but I want to ask one thing: What would have been your reaction had you found out that Joseph Silver was actually the Ripper? Would it have been something that you would have wanted to hide from the public, or would you have gone public with any personal information? The reason I ask is that I wouldn't care about anyone knowing it if it was true about my family. If it was all made up, I'd defend the guy.

Mike

Hi Mate... Hmmm thats a good question i think though i would let my dad decide because i never ever met Joseph. However i would probably mention it to behonest because i guess it's just human nature lol. And yes i admit there would also be a possibilty you could make some money out of it.

The guy Charles van Onselen who wrote about him being the ripper cerently made alot of money out of it because otherwise no one would have brought the book.. i mean no one knows who he is unless you mention about the ripper.

I want to try and get some photos of Joseph building rows of houses in Cape Town in 1888, so then hopefully the book can get taken of the shelf. my dad belives that Ralph's grand daughter may have about 12 photos of my grandfather and his friend Ralph with some other guys building those houses in 1887,1888 and 1889 which will prove where he was at the time and what he was doing.. if you ever go to Cape Town you can see the row of victorian houses they built with the date on top of the building.

if i can get hold on the photos i am gonna put them in a scanner and upload them on here.. they are very old so don't know the quality but i know the exsist my dad says. Thanks mate

[sdreid]

Hi Alex:

My girlfriend at the time gave me the book for Christmas. I never seriously thought he was JtR but that also goes for a lot of the suspects.

If I found out that one of my ancestors was a serial killer that wouldn't change who I am so I wouldn't worry much about it. That said, I obviously wouldn't be proud of it either.

[Fisherman]

Alex Silver:

"Charles van Onselen who wrote about him being the ripper cerently made alot of money out of it because otherwise no one would have brought the book.. i mean no one knows who he is unless you mention about the ripper."

Charles van Onselen is a researcher and author with a very good reputation. Which means that he would have had his audience even without the Ripper connotation, I´m afraid.

That´s not to say that I don´t understand the issues you are having with the book. I have got that same book myself. It is a decent read, but the part on Silver being the Ripper is totally unsubstantiated, and as far as I know, not very many people subscribe to the wiew of van Onselen.

I fully respect your feeling on this, as I say, but the truth of the matter is that it does not take very much to turn somebody in to a Ripper suspect. And when that hunt is on, it tends to drop any respect for the ancestors to the accued party off at the first opportunity available. It´s sad, but by and large unavoidable.

Best regards,
Fisherman

[Alex Silver]

Hi Alex:

My girlfriend at the time gave me the book for Christmas. I never seriously thought he was JtR but that also goes for a lot of the suspects.

If I found out that one of my ancestors was a serial killer that wouldn't change who I am so I wouldn't worry much about it. That said, I obviously wouldn't be proud of it either.

Hi, i'm glad you didn't.

I wasn't too upset about it but my dad was.. i have never read the book but my dad did and he was "pissed off" if i use those basic words lol. The author though knew that Joseph was on the list of the building gang who worked very hard every single day too build about 260 houses in Cape Town so the author knew he couldn't have been anywhere near London in 1888 but yet he never once wrote about Joseph's work schedule in the book. It is pretty low i think.

[Alex Silver]

Alex Silver:

"Charles van Onselen who wrote about him being the ripper cerently made alot of money out of it because otherwise no one would have brought the book.. i mean no one knows who he is unless you mention about the ripper."

Charles van Onselen is a researcher and author with a very good reputation. Which means that he would have had his audience even without the Ripper connotation, I´m afraid.

That´s not to say that I don´t understand the issues you are having with the book. I have got that same book myself. It is a decent read, but the part on Silver being the Ripper is totally unsubstantiated, and as far as I know, not very many people subscribe to the wiew of van Onselen.

I fully respect your feeling on this, as I say, but the truth of the matter is that it does not take very much to turn somebody in to a Ripper suspect. And when that hunt is on, it tends to drop any respect for the ancestors to the accued party off at the first opportunity available. It´s sad, but by and large unavoidable.

Best regards,
Fisherman

Hi Fisherman yeah i agree with you basically any male who lived in 1888 seems to be a suspect haha!.

The problem i think was is that not just he made him a ripper suspect but also made him out to be some kind of crazy person who was the king of the pimps which is nowhere near true at all.

My dad tells me we have other relatives in Cape Town with the surname Lis who were kids on Joseph aswell but i have never ever met them.. my dad says he married 3 times in South Africa with the surname Silver twice and once as Lis.

The Author Charles i think has gone way over the top with it. What he should have said in his book was Joseph was a blue collar worker.. in the building trade since he was 14 and while in South Africa got involved with a guy who owned a pimp house and employed women and boys for sex. Thats litreally it. Everything else written is way over the top to make a good story which is sad i think.

[Alex Silver]

Anyway guys thanks for listening to me, i probably won't come on here much but if you ever get to pass the word on then please do and i would be very thank full.

I don't know lots about the Ripper case but something in my gut says it's that american Dr Tumbltey.. i don't know why i think that it's just a gut feeling. I do normailly get quite strong gut feelings which are normailly right although i don't always go with them but i should lol

[sdreid]

Btw - Welcome Alex - good to see another continent represented.

What do we have left to go, Antarctica?

[TomTomKent]

The problem this discussion raises is that there is always a possibility of any named suspect having living descendents. The evidence against Mr Silver may be weak as it stands, but should we avoid naming suspects on the basis of living relatives?

It could be argued (and this is an observation not my stance) that family history based on an oral history passed down through generations, for or against a suspect is of limited value. It is likely to have a subjective bias and rely on half remembered facts. On the other hand it is entirel likely (and I am assuming this is the case in your family Alex) that with Geneology and Family Trees being in fashion, and census records available, it is fairly easy for concerned family members or interested parties to disprove outright lies and falicies.

Are we to assume that the Silvers of this world deserve any more or less respect than those related to more famous, or infamous, suspects? The Wildes, Chapmens, Cohens, Carols or Sickerts?

[Sickert]

Cruel & Sadistic

I agree he was not the Ripper, but he was a very cruel and sadistic pimp, who might well have contrived the death of a prostitute he controlled at that time.

[Wade Aznable]

I don't mean to be mean, but...

Good afternoon,
I just finished (last week) mr Van Onselen's book, which I think is extremely well researched and pleasant to read, at least as far as Joseph Lis' pimp career is concerned. I myself do not believe Lis was the Ripper, but I extremely disagree (even if I can understand it) with Alex's "innocent Joe" view, and accusation of poor research and second endings to mr Van Onselen.
Van Onselen didn't invent anything: he searched for, and found, tons and tons of official documents and witnesses' statements in court about the deeds of "gentle blue collar, hard-working Joe". Who, sorry, Alex, was a fu**ing bastard who spent a lot of time in jail condemned for crimes of which he was undoubtely guilty.

Summing up: was Joseph "Jack the Ripper"? Probably not.
Was he the nice, next-door hard-working chap Alex says? DEFINITELY not.
I respect Your ties to Your family and the passion You put in defending it, but, sadly, here there's nothing to defend. Which, by the way, does NOT make YOU or Your father less a good person, which I'm sure You definitely are.

Best Regards,
Wade

[RedBundy13]

Hanged???

Hi Alex,
I just read your first post and wanted to reply to it. First off I wanted to commend you for taking the time to come on here and try and set the record straight about your grandfather. It is true that it's unfortunate that when books are written nameing someone as a suspect in the Ripper case when in fact they had nothing to do with it. But you have to understand that every suspect named on here is in the same situation. There are hundreds of suspects and only one can be the actaul perpetrator. That means there are hundreds of familys just like yours being wrongly associated with the Ripper. Unfortunate, but thats just the way it is. And for saying someone should be hanged for their opinion? Well thats just wrong. Otherwise, if we did hang authors for accusing the wrong person, well, we would need alot of rope. And just so you know, you yourself just did the same thing when you wrote about your "gut-feeling" about Tumblety. That was actually stated with no evidence, just a feeling you got.