Masonic Ties

[JosephDurham]

Do you believe that Jack the Ripper was a Freemason?

Curious as to your thoughts. You do not have to give a reason.

Joseph

[Sally]

No

Hi Joseph

I voted 'No'. I did that because masonicish things are wrapped up in foolish and untenable conspiracy theories in general, and in this context, specifically in the realm of JTR.

He might actually have been a mason, we'll never know. But if he was, I still can't buy the conspiracy theory, or any version of it.

I find conspiracy far too complicated.

Best regards

Sally

[corey123]

I voted no. He may have been a mason, and if he was, I do believe it would have been irrelevant to the murders.

[Tecs]

Do you believe that Jack the Ripper was a Freemason?

Curious as to your thoughts. You do not have to give a reason.

Joseph

Hi Joseph.

No. The freemason argument really is a busted flush. It stems in part from a total misunderstanding of freemasons and freemasonary and also from the now discredited story originating from Joseph Gorman/Sickert. All of the supposed references to freemasonary in the murders are either coincidences or just plain wrong. ie the suggestion that the writing on the wall "juwes" refers to Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum who are present in masonic folklore is a good story but they were never known by this name, so it would actually mean nothing to any mason. The mutilations are supposed to be masonic re-enactments but again when you look into it, they are not. The whole idea of the conspiracy being orchestrated by Lord Salisbury, the Prime Minister is a great story, except that he wasn't a freemason... I could go on, but it's probably best to just finish by saying that the man who originated the masonic conspiracy theory, Joseph Gorman, later retracted it completely.

Overall, the idea that the Masons are a sinister group of powerful men who can get up to these evil deeds is almost along the lines of being afraid of the bogeyman. Most masons I know say it is no more than a drinking club. Of course, the conspiracy theorists would say that on a base level this is true, but higher up all sorts of things go on...

It is though the story most people are aware of and so it keeps coming up over and over again! But, at least it gets people interested in the subject.

Regards,

PS I was once asked to join the masons at a conference I was at. The man I was talking to misunderstood and thought that I was a mason. When I explained that I wasn't we got talking about it and he said that he would be happy to propose me if I wanted. I'd always thought that it was supposed to be a great honour to be asked to be a mason and that you had to be asked by a close, trusted friend who knew you and your character. So rather like Groucho Marx, who said that he would never join a club that would have him as a member, I thought "Do I really want to join an organisation that would let me in after five minutes despite not knowing me from Adam?" and decided no. It's saved me a fortune over the years and I hear the food's crap!!!

[The Grave Maurice]

I voted no, too, Joseph simply because there is no reason to suppose he was. I assume that your question is unrelated to the Masonic conspiracy theory which, as has been pointed out, has pretty much been abandoned. I suppose he could have been a Mason, or a Knight of Columbus, or a Rotarian, or whatever fraternal organizations existed then, but since I think he was a poor, East End nonentity, I can't really imagine him dressing up and hanging out with the boys on the second Tuesday of every month.

My grandfather and most of my uncles were Masons, but my Dad was never interested in it and I guess I just followed his example. Although, I was at a performance of The Magic Flute about thirty years ago and, during the interval, there were members of a lodge in the lobby encouraging young men to join them. I found that very odd, but this may have been about the time that some lodges started to suffer a decline in membership. Anyway, like Tecs, I thought: if it's that easy to get in, what's the point?

[Tecs]

Although, I was at a performance of The Magic Flute about thirty years ago and, during the interval, there were members of a lodge in the lobby encouraging young men to join them. I found that very odd, but this may have been about the time that some lodges started to suffer a decline in membership. Anyway, like Tecs, I thought: if it's that easy to get in, what's the point?

Masons recruiting at a performance of the magic flute! How unsubtle is that!

Shows the difference in reality vs Hollywood. ie no underground tunnels, chanting etc just bumbling old men knocking around a lobby.

Regards,

[Raoul's Obsession]

I'd say no too.
Asside from all the conspiracy theories, the evidence just doesn't suggest a person who would be a mason.
As has been pointed out above, there isn't anything in the crimes to suggest it. Furthermore, most witnesses, apart from Hutch report having seen a shabily dressed, perhaps foreign man. I doubt that the majority of freemasons at the time were from the poorer classes. The GSG points to a local (IMHO) and again I wouldn't suggest the east end of being a hub of freemasonry. More generally, the crimes suggest a sexual serial killer and while it's not impossible that he 'believed' he was doing something for the masons, I suggest its unlikely based on our knowledge of such killers.

just my thoughts

Raoul

[Sally]

Masons

The Masons have had a lot of curious press, haven't they? What with Royal Conspiracy theories, alleged ties to the Knight's Templar, secret French societies preserving the bloodline of Christ, etc.

It all makes them sound very exciting.

My grandfather was a mason. When he died, a few things happened. An anonymous obituary appeared in The Times, and several very smart looking old men in very fine suits turned up at his funeral. My recollection is that nobody seemed to know who they were. It seemed very mysterious at the time.

But then, later on, we cleared out the attic, and found boxes of old stuff from his younger days as an active Mason - books mostly, letters, cards, etc. It was actually very mundane, and not mysterious at all. There were no great secrets there that I could see. I was a teenager then, and quite disappointed!

And what about the mystery men and the curious obituary? Well, I don't know. Maybe they were old masonic friends from bygone days. But then again, my grandfather worked in insurance and I suspect had some fairly high profile cases. His mysterious associates could just have easily have come from 'business'.

Masons have been shrouded in secrecy. I understand that my grandfather would never tell anyone about his masonic activities, although his family knew he was a mason. I guess I think that maybe the Masons chose privacy. Is that secrecy? It could be seen as such, but I don't personally believe they have any great secrets. I think maybe it's more of a gentlemans' club.

[The Good Michael]

"Do I really want to join an organisation that would let me in after five minutes despite not knowing me from Adam?" and decided no. It's saved me a fortune over the years and I hear the food's crap!!!

Tecs,

More evidence on how ridiculous it is to look at the Masons as other than a club.

Mike

[johns]

I know some masons, and it's just a drinking club in my part of the world and not the sinister organisation that it's portrayed as.

The Ripper MAY have been a mason, but he also may have been a cabman, butcher, barber blah blah etc.

[The Good Michael]

Let me add a bit to this: A friend of mine with whom I taught in Korea is Spanish and claims that he and his brothers entered Freemasonry because it was the thing to do in his family and had been for many generations. He wanted me to join and divulged a bit of what they do in his part of Spain. He said that Masons are assigned tasks that revolve around the advancement of mankind. It sounds somewhat Socratic with one Mason in charge of a particular theory and his initiates trying to improve upon it, or disprove it under the master's guidance. They of course drink, but in his lodge, which he claims isn't different than many in southern Europe, the goal is to gain control intellectually over things that are causing the downfall of nations and the lowering of the human condition. He said that it is a long-term concept and that any advancements are so incrementally small that they are undetectable by most members, yet the occur. He does add that most of his lodge feel that it is a losing battle, but the few keep the majority working towards these goals. There are no huge secrets here. It is an intellectual movement and not nefarious. According to him, that is.

Mike