Should known murderers be given priority in consideration?

[curious]

[B][I]


An interesting comparison would be Peter Sutcliffe who didn't have any convictions for violence and on the face of it was a normal family man. If the case was unsolved and we looked back now, we would not find him in the police file of major suspects (a lesson for the Macnaughton memo?) we would not see any history of violence and we would probably move on to the next suspect. And yet, it was him 100%

Interestingly though, there would be enough to put together a very good circumstantional case against him if we had access to everything that we know now.

same for Dennis Rader, who killed 10 people in Wichita, Kan.

He was married, had children and went to church.

No one would ever have guessed.

[Roma]

Right.

By the way, I've heard of a barber. It was on the french radio, an author was there to talk about his book (inspired by Jack) and he spoke about a barber who could have been the Ripper... Well, I came at the end, I couldn't listen to everything, but some of you may have heard of this barber...

[Tecs]

By the way, I've heard of a barber. It was on the french radio, an author was there to talk about his book (inspired by Jack) and he spoke about a barber who could have been the Ripper... Well, I came at the end, I couldn't listen to everything, but some of you may have heard of this barber...

Hi Roma,

There are two that spring to mind, Aaron Kosminski and Severin Klosowski who is better known by the name George Chapman.

Kosminski was said to be a hairdresser and Klosowski was known to be not only a barber, but also a Feldsher which roughly translates as a barber surgeon, exactly the sort of training that Jack would need. On reflection I think they are probably talking about Klosowski.

I could go on but it's probably better for you if you read the info on this website about the two of them.

You don't have any more info on the radio interview or book do you?

Regards,

[The Good Michael]

I don't know that Klosowski was a feldscher. He was a surgeon's assistant at a hospital and later a hairdresser. I guess the skills required do equate to barber-surgeon, but technically speaking, he was neither feldscher (field surgeon), nor barber surgeon.

Cheers,

Mike

[Tecs]

[QUOTE=The Good Michael;154163]I don't know that Klosowski was a feldscher. He was a surgeon's assistant at a hospital and later a hairdresser. I guess the skills required do equate to barber-surgeon, but technically speaking, he was neither feldscher (field surgeon), nor barber surgeon.

Cheers,

Mike[/QUOTE]

You are right.

Even as I was writing the above I was racking my brain thinking "was he definitely proven to be a feldsher?" but decided that someone will correct me if I am wrong! And whatever else it may start an interesting discussion!

He may not ever have been a feldsher in England, but that is because his surgical qualifications were not recognised here when he immigrated here from Poland. He studied surgery for five years, I think, in Poland and was applauded by his mentor (studied surgery with zeal) He is described even here on the casebook as having been a junior surgeon or Feldsher in Poland.

As a surgically trained man who was working as a barber it is probably irresistable to make the assumption that he was a "feldsher" but it looks possible that he was at some point in Poland.

Regards,

[Roma]

You don't have any more info on the radio interview or book do you?
Regards,

Hello, Tecs,

The radio interview was on Europe 1. It was in a show called "Mon héros dans l'Histoire" and the book was "Léviatemps" by Maxime Chattam. Here is a link if someone wants to listen to it :

http://www.europe1.fr/MediaCenter/Emissions/Mon-heros-dans-l-histoire/Sons/Mon-heros-dans-l-Histoire-06-11-10-304766/

Just a thing: it's entirely in french!

And thank you for your answer. I was wondering how a barber could have surgical skills...

[Tecs]

And thank you for your answer. I was wondering how a barber could have surgical skills...

My pleasure.

Thank you for the link. My French isn't good enough so I will try to get somebody to translate for me.

many thanks,

Regards,

[Roma]

My pleasure.

Thank you for the link. My French isn't good enough so I will try to get somebody to translate for me.

many thanks,

Regards,

I’ve made a little sum-up of what is said, if you want :

122 years after the crimes, we still don’t know who’s behind this name : Jack the Ripper. Chattam adds, about the name, that it was made up by a journalist (Bert. Don’t know how to write it)
The area of Whitechapel, made of alleyways and backyards, was favourable for crime.
He says that Jack can really be credited with 4 of the 5 crimes (he mentions here the night when he killed twice).
If the murders stopped after Kelly, there’s an interesting theory : the one of a 26-year-old barber. This theory is not really like something out of a novel, Ferrand notices, and he talks about the theory of Patricia Cornwell about the painter Sickert. He also mentions the theory of female ripper.
About the letters from Jack, Chattam says that only one seems to be from him (From Hell). Then they talk about Sophie Erfort (she thinks Macnaghten is the Ripper…) but to Chattam, who studied criminology, it’s not possible.
In his book (Léviatemps), the story takes place in Paris in 1900, and there’s an allusion to Jack and an english suspect…

[miss marple]

I think the question should be not whether the suspects have killed before, but whether the suspects shown signs of criminality or weird deviant behaviour. Many murderers did not start off murdering but have had a previous history of criminal convictions that could involve,violence robbery, fraud, gbh etc. All the following murderers graduated to murder starting with lesser crimes.[ I'm only doing British because there the ones know best]
Dr Palmer,
Frederick Deeming
The Stratton Brothers
Samuel Dougal
George Smith
Patrick Marne
Neville Heath
John Haigh
Reginald Christie
Ian Brady
Graham Young
The Krays
Peter Sutcliffe although outwardly behaving 'normally' had deep seated psychological problems going back to his childhood, perhaps thats why he was attracted to schizofrenic Sonia they created their own world. He was a loner who did not connect with people,
Emotionally healthy people with fulfilled lives do not suddenly become serial killers.Motiveless serial killing is a result of a serious mental disorder, partly aggravated by upbringing.and could be triggered by an event. And then there are career criminals or what we used to call in the old days' bad uns' that is people with no sense of morality,or empathy guided by self interest and ruthlessness, who will not hesitate to kill if its suits their purpose, whether for personal satisfaction or for financial motives,psychopaths.
George Smith was an example of this, a ruthless psychopath who married a succession of vunerable women, abandoning them after a couple of weeks, after taking all their savings, leaving them in a public place, then going back to there digs stealing all their possessions. virtually down to the clothes on their backs, leaving them destitute. Then resorting to murder when that was the only way he could get hold of their inheritance. That was how he funded his life.
Was Jack a psychopath or did he suffer from some other mental disorder that expressed itself through murder? He did not murder for financial gain and was not a sadist.He wanted the body dead as quickly as possible so he could do his work on it, humiliate the corpse. The murders seem motiveless to us but he had a reason to do what he did,what murderous impulse led him to those events? Was he an illigetimate child abandoned by his mother, was his mother a prostitute and he was humiliated by seeing her with punters,was he beaten up ? Was he brought up in an excessively religious atmosphere and taught that sex was evil and that women were the source of temptation? Did he believe he was smarter than those around him and believe he would take revenge on imagined wrongs. He seemed to hate women.
We will never know.
The only thing I do know is that although it is a fun game, it is completely pointless looking for Jack in the great and the good and the normal.I think
he is to be found with the background of disfunction, with possible criminal elements

[Sickert]

No Way

Who can say that the killer has ever been charged with any crime. He may be so good that they never caught him for anything.

[Man Flex]

Great post Miss Marple and one I completely agree with.

Jack the Ripper has such a legend and dare I say "romance" surrounding him that people believe that he must have been something very unique, almost supernatural.

Yet hopefully one day, history will tell us that the truth is far more mundane.

In the unlikely event that we ever solve this mystery it will be because we have discovered some circumstantial evidence of a known criminal of the time and not some complete unknown.

Although it is possible that Jack was a complete "unknown" like Sutcliffe history tells us that, due to the nature of these murders, he probably had a record of violence or at least some other criminal activity.

I may add, that Sutcliffe was interviewed nine times by the police during his five year reign of terror but was only arrested after he was caught "in the act".

[John Wheat]

I think it's debatable as to how different the murder of Ellen Bury was to the Ripper murders. There are similarities to all five. If you look at Ellen Bury's murder and reports of the crime seen e.g. the chalk messages then you have to conclude that Bury was either Jack the Ripper, that Ellen Bury's was a copycat murder either premeditated or made to look like a ripper murder after the act. The fact her throat wasn't cut doesn't answer this. Granted you might expect a Ripper victim's throat to have been cut but by the same token you would also expect a copycat murderer to have cut the throat.