The Ripper in America?

[Mattis]

All of you probably already have seen the documentary "Jack the Ripper in America". It is about a murder of a prostitute in New York. The killer had the same M.O.

I think maybe we need to reconsider Dr. Francis Tumlety again, since he fled to New York after the murder of MJK. But then again he doesn´t have the right age unless he haven´t murdered any prostitue before. But if he did Jack wouldn´t have started of more aggressively than it is said he did?

Well maybe it can be some other american or Londoner who fled, I guess this wont prove anything either really.

[Pontius2000]

the killer of the prositute in NY did not have the same MO as JtR, other than the fact that he killed her with a knife, like thousands of other people also did. the person believed to have killed the woman in NY was young, dark complexioned, and possibly even a foreigner (I believe the person arrested was even middle eastern). therefore, he didn't match Tumblety's description at all.

Tumblety, I believe, was 5'11. which was MUCH taller than any of the eyewitness accounts for JtR.

Tumblety had extremely peculiar facial hair. if any of the witnesses saw a man with that fancy of a mustache, I think it would've been mentioned.

and Tumblety, it is believed, was homosexual. I don't there's ever been a proven case where a serial killer with one sexual orientation lashed out against victims of a different sexual orientation.

I don't know whether or not Tumblety fled to NY. is there proof of that? what I've seen is that his whereabouts were unknown. but I do think it is pretty well known that he died in Missouri many years later.


Tumblety was a flamboyant American, and that alone probably made him a suspect. the fact that prostitutes were killed in the UK and America, and Tumblety was in the UK and America does not make him any more likely a suspect than thousands of other people at the time.

[Mattis]

According to the summary of the documentary the killer used exactly the same M.O

That´s true that Jack is said to be under average length, so you are probably right there.

Well doesn´t Aaron Kosminski have a big mustache to? As several of the suspect do. Yes Tumblety is believed to be a homosexual, but he hated women and collected the organs that Jack harvested. I also know that serial killers don´t kill people they are not in some way attracted to.

It IS certain that Tumblety payed his bail and fled from London a few weeks after the murder of MJK, and fled to New York, at least every source I have looked into say that.

I am also very sceptical to Tumblety being Jack, I am more in to the theory of William Henry Bury or Henry Tomkins, who actually worked near the scene where Mary Ann Nichols was murdered, and we know now that serial killers either work or live near where their first murder happened.

[Pontius2000]

According to the summary of the documentary the killer used exactly the same M.O

That´s true that Jack is said to be under average length, so you are probably right there.

Well doesn´t Aaron Kosminski have a big mustache to? As several of the suspect do. Yes Tumblety is believed to be a homosexual, but he hated women and collected the organs that Jack harvested. I also know that serial killers don´t kill people they are not in some way attracted to.

It IS certain that Tumblety payed his bail and fled from London a few weeks after the murder of MJK, and fled to New York, at least every source I have looked into say that.

I am also very sceptical to Tumblety being Jack, I am more in to the theory of William Henry Bury or Henry Tomkins, who actually worked near the scene where Mary Ann Nichols was murdered, and we know now that serial killers either work or live near where their first murder happened.

well, the point of the documentary was to prove that Kelly was JtR as well as the killer of the prostitute in NY, so of course they're going to push the same MO. It wasn't the same MO. I believe the woman in NY had her throat cut and was stabbed once or twice, if I'm not mistaken. It's pretty much widely accepted now that JtR strangled his victims first, then cut the throat, then did the body mutilations. from Tabram to Kelly was a clear escalation in violence. the murder of the prostitute would've been like starting over completely and the MO does not match.

there is no physical description that I know of for Kosminski other than he was small. almost ALL men of that time had mustaches. but have you seen Tumblety's mustache? it was a head turner. it was very obvious that he took a lot of time and effort in grooming that atrocious looking thing. no witness statements I've seen about JtR having such a loony looking mustache.

I don't know if Tumblety went to NY or not. I thought I read something about him going to Canada and dying in Missouri. I don't remember anything else about his whereabouts being known.

as for the collection of organs, I've seen no proof or evidence at all to back that up. same goes for rumors that Tumblety hated women. I just don't think he was a likely suspect at all.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Actually, Tumblety did flee to New York after he escaped London in 1888. He lived in New York off and on for much of his life but it is unclear if he was in New York the night Carrie Brown was murdered (24 April, 1891).

The last definitely known location for him at this time was the Plateau Hotel in Hot Springs, Arkansas, around mid April. His room was burgled on the 17th or 18th and he lost $2000 in cash and between $5000 and $7000 in diamonds as well as $22,000 worth of Canadian Railroad Bonds. This doesn’t mean he wasn’t in New York less than a week later, we just don’t know. He was definitely back in New York in July of 1891 though.

Tumblety didn’t collect uteri in jars nor did he hate prostitutes because he supposedly married one. These accusations come from only one source, Charles A. Dunham, a convicted perjurer, fraud artist and confidence trickster who claimed that he knew Tumblety in Washington during the American Civil War. Unfortunately for Tumblety supporters Dunham gets all the known, varifiable facts about Tumblety during this period wrong and Dunham’s biographer states that he probably made the whole thing up to sell the story to the newspapers.

According to James Kelly himself he was in France in 1891 and didn’t arrive in New York until the next year so he didn’t murder Carrie Brown either. Neither he nor Tumblety fits the description of the man who did: mid thirties, about 5’ 8” to 5’ 9” tall, slim build with light coloured hair and a blond mustache, long thin nose and he was thought to be German, although the probable killer, a sailor known only as “Frank,” was actually Danish.

Brown was struck on the head, strangled to death, or at least to unconsciousness, then mutilated with a dull, broken knife which was left at the scene. The mutilations were bad, but not as serious as those to London’s Ripper victims, with some of the cuts described as mere scratches.

Wolf.

[mklhawley]

Actually, Tumblety did flee to New York after he escaped London in 1888. He lived in New York off and on for much of his life but it is unclear if he was in New York the night Carrie Brown was murdered (24 April, 1891).

The last definitely known location for him at this time was the Plateau Hotel in Hot Springs, Arkansas, around mid April. His room was burgled on the 17th or 18th and he lost $2000 in cash and between $5000 and $7000 in diamonds as well as $22,000 worth of Canadian Railroad Bonds. This doesn’t mean he wasn’t in New York less than a week later, we just don’t know. He was definitely back in New York in July of 1891 though.

Tumblety didn’t collect uteri in jars nor did he hate prostitutes because he supposedly married one. These accusations come from only one source, Charles A. Dunham, a convicted perjurer, fraud artist and confidence trickster who claimed that he knew Tumblety in Washington during the American Civil War. Unfortunately for Tumblety supporters Dunham gets all the known, varifiable facts about Tumblety during this period wrong and Dunham’s biographer states that he probably made the whole thing up to sell the story to the newspapers.

According to James Kelly himself he was in France in 1891 and didn’t arrive in New York until the next year so he didn’t murder Carrie Brown either. Neither he nor Tumblety fits the description of the man who did: mid thirties, about 5’ 8” to 5’ 9” tall, slim build with light coloured hair and a blond mustache, long thin nose and he was thought to be German, although the probable killer, a sailor known only as “Frank,” was actually Danish.

Brown was struck on the head, strangled to death, or at least to unconsciousness, then mutilated with a dull, broken knife which was left at the scene. The mutilations were bad, but not as serious as those to London’s Ripper victims, with some of the cuts described as mere scratches.

Wolf.

Wolf, this is a case where you have convinced even me.

Sincerely,

Mike