23rd November 1888 Ripper Arrest

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

My apologies if this has been previously discussed.

Old Bailey, 7th January 1889–

Extracts from: Trial of ALFRED DODD (26), HARRY FIFE (38), GEORGE SAUNDERS (39), and THOMAS COOK (60) Stealing a quantity of silk, the property of Walter Evans and another.

THOMAS STACET [STACEY] (Detective H). I belong to Commercial Street station.

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. Conter and I work together round Whitechapel—no one asked me to come here to-day; I am here in another case—I was at the station a month ago, when Fife came in with two men, one of whom Fife pointed out as having acted very suspiciously, and he was charged with behaving in such a strange manner that Dew thought he might be the Whitechapel murderer—he was brought in between seven and eight, and was there half-an-hour—the Police-station is three-quarters of a mile, from Baker's Row—he was detained, and afterwards discharged on the ground that he was suffering from religious mania—Fife was, I believe, not present when he was discharged—Fife said that he had followed him for some time, or "a long time"—it may have been after eight o'clock when Fife left—it is five or six weeks ago—I made a note, and can refer to it, but my diary is at the station—Fife would not have been in the station on the night of his arrest—after they were arrested I knew that this was on or about November 23rd, but I did not turn to my diary to see whether White was there that day.

WALTER BACH [BECK] (Police-Inspector H).

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I was on duty in the charge room on November 23rd—it is my duty to enter in the occurrence-book the particulars of the visits of persons who come to the station—this entry is my writing. (This stated that on November 23rd at 6.45 a man was brought to the station by the police who was supposed from his conduct in the street to be the Whitechapel murderer, and that the prisoner Fife came to the station to charge him)—there is not a doubt that Fife came to the station to give information—this was written down from information partly from Fife and partly from Skeete, and from the constable too.

EDMOND REED (Detective Inspector H).

Cross-examined by MR. GEOGHEGAN. I do not know that on the night the van was stolen Fife was in the station charging a man with being the Whitechapel murderer, but I can find out before this case is finished—something was said by Mr. Evans about a reward of £50, and I said, "No, don't you do it."

So much for Mister Astrakhan.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper

From The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper, 1999 -

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

The story sure knocks a big hole in Tumblety's candidature.

Regards,

Simon

[Stewart P Evans]

Strange

Hi Stewart,
The story sure knocks a big hole in Tumblety's candidature.
Regards,
Simon

What a strange line of reasoning you have. Of course it doesn't 'knock a big hole' in anyone's 'candidature'. The case was still unsolved, no one had been proven to be the murderer, and Tumblety, like several others, was merely a suspect. You would never make a policeman Simon. But there, I don't suppose that you would want to be one.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

I just wanted to pop this one in, to see what all make of it. I hold no view either way.

It is from Reynold's Newspaper, Special Sunday Edition, 18th November 1888 Issue 1997.

The East End Horrors

Latest details.

"The story which has been going the round the foreign newspapers, of a supposed Russian named Wassili, being concerned in the crimes, has now beem shown to be a myth. The information telegraphed from Birmingham to the London Police was considered of suffiecient importance by the authorities to send Detectives Leach and White, of the Criminal Information Department,
to Willesdon Junction and Euston respectively, to meet the train from Birmingham by which the suspected man was to arrive. Inspector White, on the arrival of the train, arrested the suspected individual and conveyed him to Scotland Yard. It is stated that the man under arrest has been staying at a common lodging.house in Birmingham since Monday last, and the theory is that if, as is suspected by the police, he is connected to the East End crimes, he left the metropolis by an early train on the morning of the tradgedies. The prisoner is a medical man who some years ago was practicing in London with another gentleman of some repute. He is of gentlemanly appearance and manners, and is declared to resemble the man described by witnesses at the inquest as having been seen in company with Mary Jeanette Kelly early on the morning that she was murdered. The prisoner is still detained pending further enquiries.

Sunday morning , 1.30.

The report of a man having been arrested at Euston station yesterday afternoon, who had travelled from Birmingham, is incorrect. The authorities at Scotland Yard decline to give any information on the subject; but from many circumstances it is believed the report is unfounded. "

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Phil,

Good catch.

Regards,

Simon

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

I once considered becoming a policeman but, after the Metropolitan Police lied through its collective teeth, resulting in my uncle being reduced in rank from Superintendent to Constable, I changed my mind.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hello all,

I just wanted to pop this one in, to see what all make of it. I hold no view either way.

It is from Reynold's Newspaper, Special Sunday Edition, 18th November 1888 Issue 1997.

The East End Horrors

Latest details.

"The story which has been going the round the foreign newspapers, of a supposed Russian named Wassili, being concerned in the crimes, has now beem shown to be a myth. The information telegraphed from Birmingham to the London Police was considered of suffiecient importance by the authorities to send Detectives Leach and White, of the Criminal Information Department,
to Willesdon Junction and Euston respectively, to meet the train from Birmingham by which the suspected man was to arrive. Inspector White, on the arrival of the train, arrested the suspected individual and conveyed him to Scotland Yard. It is stated that the man under arrest has been staying at a common lodging.house in Birmingham since Monday last, and the theory is that if, as is suspected by the police, he is connected to the East End crimes, he left the metropolis by an early train on the morning of the tradgedies. The prisoner is a medical man who some years ago was practicing in London with another gentleman of some repute. He is of gentlemanly appearance and manners, and is declared to resemble the man described by witnesses at the inquest as having been seen in company with Mary Jeanette Kelly early on the morning that she was murdered. The prisoner is still detained pending further enquiries.

Sunday morning , 1.30.

The report of a man having been arrested at Euston station yesterday afternoon, who had travelled from Birmingham, is incorrect. The authorities at Scotland Yard decline to give any information on the subject; but from many circumstances it is believed the report is unfounded. "

best wishes

Phil

Hi Phil,

I find your find very interesting. We know that London newspapers were silent about Francis Tumblety being a JTR suspect and notice how this London newspaper comments on a different suspect involving this particular arrest, the Russian Wassili. Also note that the reporter, stating “…it is believed the report is unfounded ”, purposely points out that this information did not come from Scotland Yard (at least publically). Deputy Minister Smith’s private letter written two weeks later connects Francis Tumblety directly to an arrest in London as he travelled from Birmingham. Either there were two Birmingham to London doctor arrests of a JTR suspect in later November or it actually is the same arrest. If Wolf is correct that Smith’s sources were from reading newspapers, why did he and other newspapers not know of this particular “unfounded” report? Surely, this would have been circulated to most presses after two weeks if the reporter’s belief had teeth.

My suggestion is Deputy Minister Smith’s source was Scotland Yard, since his comments clearly express a tone of confidence in the letter. I’m sure newspaper reports would not have given a senior government official this level of confidence, especially when he most likely knew press reports should be taken with a grain of salt. Notice HOW he states this info:

“He is the man who was arrested in London three weeks ago as the Whitechapel murderer. He had been living in Birmingham and used to come up to London on Saturday nights. The police have always had their eyes on him every place he went and finally the Birmingham Police telegraphed to the London Police that he had left for London, and on his arrival he was nabbed accordingly.”

We now know that Anderson himself solicited information from North American authorities about Francis Tumblety at the time the Reynolds article was being published. Even so, Anderson never told the London newspapers of his requesting information from N. American authorities, just as the Reynolds reporter explained how Scotland Yard officials declined to give any info. Luckily, Littlechild’s private letter, supported by Roger Palmer’s discoveries, allows us to know some of the info Scotland Yard declined to give in 1888.

Just some thoughts.

Sincerey,

Mike