Tabram's soldier

[Steven Russell]

I've often thought that the military fellow seen with Tabram deserves to be a more fashionable suspect. Any views?

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Zodiac]

I've often thought that the military fellow seen with Tabram deserves to be a more fashionable suspect. Any views?

Best wishes,
Steve.

Hi Steve,

Yes, I am in no way an expert on the "whitechapel murders", far from it, but I seem to remember reading something about the police going to check out the Tower Garrison, with Martha's female friend? but I could be mistaken, its a long time since I read about it.

Best Wishes,

Zodiac.

[lynn cates]

soldier

Hello Steven. If by fashionable you mean primary, then I agree. Before Professor Sugden wrote his book (after the dicta of Macnaughten and Bond, of course), it seemed just a given that Martha was a victim of a drunken soldier.

The wounds give an appearance of, roughly, rage. This would not be unexpected if a prostitute tried to cheat or rob her customer.

Cheers.
LC

[Steven Russell]

Dear Zodiac,
I am no expert either but I can tell you that you are not mistaken. I think "Pearly Poll" took part in two identity parades but the results were disappointing. The soldiers she identified provided alibis for the night in question and Poll seems to have been uncertain about which regiment her and Martha's men belonged to.

Lynn,
I would agree that it is an extremely bad idea to try to swindle drunken soldiers but thirty-nine stab wounds means a hell of a lot of rage!

Best wishes,
Steve.

[The Grave Maurice]

The timing of the death isn't right for the soldier to have done it. And, yeah, thirty-nine wounds isn't rage, it's madness. (Unless I'm thinking of steps.)

[The Good Michael]

Stephen,

At face value, Tabram seems to have been a one-off. I think to include her in the canon is a great leap unless one looks at a soldier as prime suspect in all the murders, another leap. I'm not saying a soldier murdered her. I'm saying that one must stretch a bit to find another suspect.

Cheers,

Mike

[Hunter]

That may be if there hadn't been 5 others to soon follow. Martha was stabbed in her genitals and lower abdomen and she was found spread-eagle. This type of murder was not commonplace and even the crime ridden East End took notice of it.

As far as Pearly Poll's testimony about soldiers... the police seemed to come to the conclusion that she was lying and leading them on a wild goose chase.

The most incriminating evidence ( the wound supposedly caused by a bayonet) could have been made by a stout dagger as well.

[Fisherman]

Hunter:

"The most incriminating evidence ( the wound supposedly caused by a bayonet) could have been made by a stout dagger as well."

And indeed, that was what Killeen himself suggested from the outset. No mentioning of any bayonet at that point.

The best,
Fisherman

[Dr. John Watson]

I'm among many who believe Tabrum was a victim - likely the first - of Jack the Ripper. The type of knife attack, number and location of wounds, time of night, public location, all point to the Ripper. But I don't think her soldier customer was guilty; it's highly unlikely that particular soldier committed the later murders, especially considering the extensive police interest in military men following Tabrum's murder. Martha could easily have separated peacefully from the soldier, then hooked up with Jack - possibly in George Yard - and went with him to her death. Her soldier may have seen Jack with Tabrum, but like his companion kept silent, not wishing to become involved. Their identities will likely never become known.

Incidently, the list of Ripper victims usually referred to as the "Canonical Five" is not universally accepted as axiomatic and binding. There's a history behind the adoption of that term which I won't go into here, but the list should more properly be called the "MacNaghten Five," since it was that police official - who never worked on the case - who limited the number to five in a "Memorandum," replete with errors, he wrote in 1894.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I'm among many who believe Tabrum was a victim - likely the first - of Jack the Ripper. The type of knife attack, number and location of wounds, time of night, public location, all point to the Ripper. But I don't think her soldier customer was guilty; it's highly unlikely that particular soldier committed the later murders, especially considering the extensive police interest in military men following Tabrum's murder. Martha could easily have separated peacefully from the soldier, then hooked up with Jack - possibly in George Yard - and went with him to her death. Her soldier may have seen Jack with Tabrum, but like his companion kept silent, not wishing to become involved. Their identities will likely never become known.

Incidently, the list of Ripper victims usually referred to as the "Canonical Five" is not universally accepted as axiomatic and binding. There's a history behind the adoption of that term which I won't go into here, but the list should more properly be called the "MacNaghten Five," since it was that police official - who never worked on the case - who limited the number to five in a "Memorandum," replete with errors, he wrote in 1894.

Well...if Tabram was a JTR victim....and it was the soldier who killed Tabram......then there is a link to blotchy.....scurvy had been eradicated in the navy but remained common place in the army in the 1880s.....although depending upon severity it could have rendered the soldier unable to walk.....which could explain gaps between murders.

Then again....a diet of cheap meat and cheap ale would have caused a blotchy face.

[Hunter]

And indeed, that was what Killeen himself suggested from the outset. No mentioning of any bayonet at that point.

Yes, good point (no pun intended), Fish.

[The Good Michael]

That may be if there hadn't been 5 others to soon follow. Martha was stabbed in her genitals and lower abdomen and she was found spread-eagle. This type of murder was not commonplace and even the crime ridden East End took notice of it.

True, but all that is after the fact. In isolation, and with witness testimony, it appears that Tabram was last seen going off with a soldier. The murder, if thought of as C5 related, must be looked at as an exploratory kill with the others an escalation, or an evolution.

As far as Pearly Poll's testimony about soldiers... the police seemed to come to the conclusion that she was lying and leading them on a wild goose chase.

It looks to me as if Poll was useless at telling soldiers apart by ranks. It also tells me that since she couldn't do it, no one was stepping forward to help.

Cheers,

Mike

[Steven Russell]

Pearly Poll's failure to identify the soldiers in question is hardly surprising. Nor, I feel, does it make her a liar. Consider:

• Several days had passed between the fatal night and the identity parades,
• She had been drunk at the time in question,
• She probably would have had no reason to pay especially close attention to these particular clients,
• Soldiers in uniform have a pretty much, well... uniform appearance (and I bet nearly all of them sported the virtually ubiquitous moustache),
• Poll may have been looking at the wrong regiment anyway.
• PC Barrett, a trained and presumably sober observer, was unable to correctly pick out his man.

The police certainly considered the amorous squaddies persons of interest or else why mess about arranging the identity parades? That being the case then, if we allow - as many do - that Tabram may have been a Ripper victim, we too should retain an interest in the soldiers. And let us not forget that soldiers are trained to do violence for the greater good. Killing is part of their raison d'etre.

Despite all this, the police seem to have quickly shifted their focus from soldiers to butchers, slaughtermen, and doctors etc. in their hunt for the Ripper. They must have had good reason for doing so but I doubt it was that they thought Tabram's was an isolated killing; the idea of the C5 was yet to come.

Anyway, food for thought I hope.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Scorpio]

Hello Steven. If by fashionable you mean primary, then I agree. Before Professor Sugden wrote his book (after the dicta of Macnaughten and Bond, of course), it seemed just a given that Martha was a victim of a drunken soldier.

The wounds give an appearance of, roughly, rage. This would not be unexpected if a prostitute tried to cheat or rob her customer.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, i believe the lack of defensive wounds on Martha, notably the forearms, and the possibility strangulation is a factor. Also, there is reason to suggest different weapons were used in the assault. Considering this, the word premeditation springs to mind. What kind of altercation leads to strangulation, when the attacker has not one, but two knives.

[Hunter]

And how many other altercations involving 'unfortunates' that ended in a woman being brutally murdered by knife happened during that same year in the whole of England?