No Groupies Turning Up?

[Chava]

This is not exactly a suspect thread, but it strikes me as strange that there are no records of men turning up and involving themselves in the investigation. In any high-profile serial killer investigation there always seem to be men--and sometimes women--turning up, offering to help, attracting police attention. Sometimes these people are killers, sometimes they're just attention-seekers but they always seem to be there. I thought of this after watching 5 Daughters about the East Anglian murderer a few years ago. There was at least one man who claimed to know all the dead prostitutes, and he was a major suspect for a while.

I guess the only person who comes close to this is Kudzu. He claims to know Kelly. Beyond that there aren't any records in the files or in the newspaper reports that would come under this category. It doesn't help or get us any further forward, but strange nonetheless. Especially since there would have been any number of punters--some unmarried and so unlikely to get into trouble if they come forward--who would have known most if not all of them.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Chava. Who's Kudzu? That one's new to me.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Steven Russell]

And me. What about Stephenson?

[The Grave Maurice]

Albert Bachert displayed some of those characteristics.

[protohistorian]

Thats a fine observation Chava. I am wondering if the reason we see that behavior in moderns is that they have learned it to a large degree. They might also be responding to media over presentation to a degree. One was not possible for "Jack" and the other would have been undiagnosable given the Victorian experience with such people. Seriously, if the senior cops suspect serial masturbators, how likely they would spot a press groupie?Dave

[Garry Wroe]

Packer, Violenia, Mary Malcolm, and Dr William 'the White Eyed Man' Holt. This is to say nothing of Larkins, Forbes Winslow, and even Mrs Fiddymont. Doubtless, there are dozens of others about whom we know little or nothing.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Chava]

Kudzu=Hutchinson. I call him that because he takes over every thread he's ever mentioned in. Like kudzu...

As for the above=mentioned, yes, they appeared at various times. But what I'm getting at is the guy that claimed to know--or did know--all the women. Claimed to help them out and care for them, said he looked after the prostitutes etc etc. Wanted to go the extra mile for the police. Haunted the investigation. There wasn't one of those. And I was amazed when I checked to find out how many of those kinds of guys turn up in prostitute murder investigations.

Like I said, it doesn't get us any further. But it's a bit of a surprise to me that no one like that ever spoke to a journalist or tried to buttonhole a policeman.

[Versa]

I completely understand/get what your saying, the recent ipswich murders being a great example, over involvement etc

I'm not 100% though that our current obsession with the media and crime can be transfered back to the 1888's. Its a really hard judgement call though wether JTR would of been media or even police savy enough involve himself in any investigation?

I'd like to see a psycological report on the cuts JTR inflicted before i made a judgement on anything else....

Really its only recent cases where killers have been 'media aware' that the 'groupie' phenonomen has arisen. JTR was most likely illiterate, i think any sensationalism JTR would of been interested in would of been local gossip, if that.

no, i believe he did what he did for personal reasons. JTR was a highly disturbed man that could present an innocuous face to those around him. I doubt he sought or thrived on publicity or even had the where-withall to use the said publicity to his advantage.

Dont forget the interest that cases such as this and the Rode Hill House Murder were only brought to the public via the media AT THE TIME, sensationalism such as was seen during the WCM's was never seen before in England.

JTR would of been unlikely to have had any understanding of police methods of enquiry. Maybe he stood on the fringes of gossip, listening to his landlady gossip to another woman or a work mate expounding his therory? I think thats as far as it was LIKELY to have gone though.

Of modern serial killers how many involved themselves? A few? Most stayed undetected untill an 'unfortunate' event exposed them.

[caz]

Really its only recent cases where killers have been 'media aware' that the 'groupie' phenonomen has arisen. JTR was most likely illiterate, i think any sensationalism JTR would of been interested in would of been local gossip, if that.

Well there's a lot of it about. But where 'most likely' comes from I do not know. Most adult Londoners by 1888 didn't require picture-only newspapers to tell them about the murders in their neighbourhood causing a media sensation.

I agree that he did his thing for personal reasons, but there is no telling whether or not he got off on his own publicity when it became obvious to him how massive a story he was becoming. He'd have to be living in a cave or a vacuum not to know it or be affected by it to some degree.

...sensationalism such as was seen during the WCM's was never seen before in England.

You said it.

Of modern serial killers how many involved themselves? A few? Most stayed undetected untill an 'unfortunate' event exposed them.

Well they all stay undetected until exposed by evidence linking them to their crimes. I would agree that few deliberately expose themselves when there would otherwise have been nothing to connect them.

Love,

Caz
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