Isenschmid(t) Records: Part 2

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Corey. Indeed. Still, his "mentality" is very revealing.

Cheers.
LC

[jason_c]

Ive just found this thread, excellent stuff Chris.

Just a note of caution, Isenschmid wouldnt have been the only mentalist foreign nutcase trolling Whitechapel at this time. Im sure they were ten a penny.

[YankeeSergeant]

Isenschmidt

So if we accept Eddows as a victim of the Ripper even if we don't Stride, then by reason JAcob Isenschmidt isn't our boy. Theoretically anyways. I'm trying to wrap my head around the reality of the murders as I research for my novel. Thanks all. Neil

[Phil Carter]

Hello YS,

If JI was locked up having already murdered of C1 and C2, and Stride was NOT a "Ripper" victim, then potentially, we have 3 different killers. The murderer of C1 and C2, C3 (Stride) and C4 and C5.

That sounds too fantastic to begin with, but it all depends on two things... if Lynn is correct and JI was the murderer of C1 and C2 (which is quite plausible), and Stride was a one off, also plausible according to many Ripperologists, then it isn't so fantastic an idea after all.

"Jack the Ripper", the name, the phenomenon, only actually started in the public view, AFTER the events of 30th September. Before then, he was the "Whitechapel murderer"... so it isn't such a long shot that we have a copycat situation with C4 and C5..infact, it is a perfect cover. Murders made to look like one and the same. Which would be the case if JI was locked up (which he was)..

All intruiging possibilities...and it really does depend on whether you believe in a lone killer or not.

Personally, I have always thought and believed in the idea of at least three killers, and have done so for many years. As soon as you take Stride out of the equation, which many do, then there isn't a lone killer anymore, thereby the myth of "Jack the Ripper" is exploded. It is difficult for some to accept this, of course, but according to the latest known figures, around 35-40% doubt Stride to be a victim of the same murderer.

The whole idea only becomes fantastic IF one sticks to one lone killer.

I personally believe that A/C Robert Anderson, spymaster, used the killing spree in Whitechapel for his own ends in hunting down anarchists and fenians etc. I can see the self same reason for a killer to use the same situation for his own ends too, i.e. copycat killing(s).

The most intruiging however, is that some very serious and professional researchers and historians have raised questions as to MJK being a victim of the same hand. If THAT i the case, then the whole Ripper scenario is blown to smithereens. Not palatable for many. For taking Stride and Kelly out of the equation, really does expose all sorts of possibilities.

sorry about the long post.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

So if we accept Eddows as a victim of the Ripper even if we don't Stride, then by reason JAcob Isenschmidt isn't our boy. Theoretically anyways. I'm trying to wrap my head around the reality of the murders as I research for my novel. Thanks all. Neil

He's not the murderer of the canonical 5 (or is it 4 now?). But he could be the murderer of Nichols and Chapman, allowing for the fact a copycat killer then came along.

This copycat theory makes a good novel but in real life unlikely.

[Phil Carter]

Ive just found this thread, excellent stuff Chris.

Just a note of caution, Isenschmid wouldnt have been the only mentalist foreign nutcase trolling Whitechapel at this time. Im sure they were ten a penny.

Hello Jason,

Exactly. And leaves doors WIDE open for therre being more than one killer.

best wishes

Phil

[jason_c]

Hello Jason,

Exactly. And leaves doors WIDE open for therre being more than one killer.

best wishes

Phil

Apart from there having been such individuals in the area for decades without such a series of murders occurring(or rarely occurring). It was only this brief period such killings took place - prostitutes, throat cutting, followed by mutilations etc.

Being a nut case with violent tendencies doesnt make someone a cold blooded killer of prostitutes.

[corey123]

The theory is like any other. Jason, it is still the canonical five, yet some ascribe different victims to the tally. I personally think "Jack the Ripper" killed six women, yes the name has nothing to do with the purpose.

Phil, you keep on bringing up the name "Jack the Ripper" and it's timing, while it is irrelevant to your theory. What importance does it have?

Either way, I don't think Isenschmid was a killer, yet he is a fascinating individual. I would say we keep this topic down to the individual person of Jacob Isenschmid, not the theories surrounding him.

Yours truly

Corey

p.s Phil, Jason, et al, I can start a thread for this topic if you wish.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Corey,

The JI theory is, in my personal opinion, viable and far far better than a theory naming Kosminski or anyone other individual. The man was there at the time, suspected by Abberline, two doctors and Mrs Fiddymont. No other person named as a suspect has this grouping of evidence against him. This suspect should, in my opinion, be given far greater thought. I believe that Lynn and Chris have produced very convincing evidence linking his state of mind to the person who murdered some of these women. The records of his incarceration in 1888 would be very useful to have.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Being a nut case with violent tendencies doesnt make someone a cold blooded killer of prostitutes.

Hello Jason,

Yes, a plausible argument. But it doesn't rule out such a possibility either.

best wishes

Phil

[corey123]

Hello Phil,

I agree, however, Abberline did think him a viable suspect, until he was apprehended. Either way, you are correct, Isenschmid need more thought upon him. He is an interesting fellow.

Nevertheless, how is he a better suspect than Kosminski? The circumstances between the two are very similar aside from the dates of admittion to Colney Hatch.

I also wish we had the records from Bow Street Asylum. Though I am sure it would mimic the other records.

Yours truly

Corey

[lynn cates]

do he taste test

Hello Corey.

"how is he a better suspect than Kosminski?"

1. Kosminski's file says not violent. JI, violent.

2. Kosminski was not known to wander all over the city with well sharpened butcher's knives. JI did.

3. Kosminski was never found strangling a woman. JI was.

4. Kosminski was not found with trinkets wrapped up in paper. JI was.

Cheers.
LC

[corey123]

Lynn,

This is picking points. Jacob was a butcher, that explains number two. He had schizophrenia, explains four. Jacob Isenschmid was only violent while under psychosis. Either way, they are both very similiar.

[jason_c]

Hello Corey.

"how is he a better suspect than Kosminski?"

1. Kosminski's file says not violent. JI, violent.

2. Kosminski was not known to wander all over the city with well sharpened butcher's knives. JI did.

3. Kosminski was never found strangling a woman. JI was.

4. Kosminski was not found with trinkets wrapped up in paper. JI was.

Cheers.
LC

Kosminski was ID'd by a witness. JI, wasnt.

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Corey. Yes, a butcher would likely carry a knife. But that is what has precisely engaged many investigators since day 1. We still seek those engaged in that trade.

Yes, he was violent when psychotic, but he was frequently so. Indeed, and most importantly, he was known to be psychotic during the relevant period.

I agree, that, mentally considered, they may have been similar, but so far as we have evidence, AK never tried to kill anyone; not so JI.

Phil's point and mine is that, if half the things known about JI could be established about AK, then his supporters would yell "Case closed" in unison.

Cheers.
LC