pc edward watkins (881-city police) was he the ripper, poss new evidence.

[Phil Carter]

Hello lynseyjo,

Thank you. A most interesting story indeed. I look forward to seeing the photos as well. Please pass on my (and our) thanks to Chas for this. Although, because of the nature of the subject, scepticism, somewhat naturally I may add, rises at first "showing", be assured that any new find is welcome. I think you have presented the story fairly.

best wishes

Phil

[corey123]

Hmm, those graphics look mighty familiar....

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I am sure you are familiar with them. Its the best diagram for the topic I have seen so far. I would love to buy the whole book, but I only have seen a few pages from it. From what I have seen, it looks great.

[corey123]

Hi Andrew,

Yes. Remember the many hours you spent travelling to London to take the photograph? The hours you spent on the graphics when you returned? The feeling of satisfaction you had when you finished the job? Well, that image is in Corey's "collection" now, and he's going to use it when and where he likes.

To be fair to him, he does credit you in post #20 on this thread...

London Police (re-opened)

... where he used the same image ... and I reckon that he doesn't own the originals of his "collection" of H-Division CID Officers, reproduced in post #21, particularly in view of the fact that they are identical to those posted on this thread [click], some time previously.

Regards,

Mark

I didn't mean any disrespect when I used that photo, I only thought it was a good example and quite frankly the only example I have seen that really shows you Watkins beat. If it is disrespecting you I will not use that photo anymore as examples. I apologize.


Yours truly

[Fleetwood Mac]

Has anyone checked the records to see if Watkins was on his beat on the night of the other murders.....thereby providing a decent enough alibi....

And how did Watkins skip his beat in the City and get to Stride?

And surely a copper near MJK's room on the night of the murder would have been noticed?

Hmmmm......

Let's say the story is true....and the knives are similar to those cited at the inquests....I wonder what the chances are that Watkins could have disturbed the killer and took the knives out of fascination......pretty slim I'd imagine.

[Chris Scott]

There is some family background of Watkins's by a family member on Page 7 of this newsletter:

http://www.watkinsfhs.net/newsletters/pdf/WatkinsNews_13_Aug_2003.pdf

[Andrew Firth]

Hi Andrew,

I am sure you are familiar with them. Its the best diagram for the topic I have seen so far. I would love to buy the whole book, but I only have seen a few pages from it. From what I have seen, it looks great.

Thanks for the feedback!

I don't mind them being reposted on this forum at all! After all, I posted them on Casebook in the first place for everyone to see (albeit on a different thread). As long as I'm credited in any repostings, then I don't mind.

All the best
Andrew

[Andrew Firth]

For clarity, here are the original overlays....




All the best
Andrew

[Rob Clack]

Me and Neil wrote about P.C Watkins in our 'City Beat' articles for 'Ripperologist'. The Watkins' one appeared in #105.



Rob

[corey123]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for posting a larger scale version. What this picture still happens to amaze me with is just how close the ripper was to being caught during this murder. The two beats shown are good examples at how the ripper could have been caught.

Anyways, Chas,

I would love to see a picture of this truncheon you speak of. Like I said, there are many inconsistancies with this story but still worth a look.

Yours truly

[m_w_r]

I didn't mean any disrespect when I used that photo, I only thought it was a good example and quite frankly the only example I have seen that really shows you Watkins beat. If it is disrespecting you I will not use that photo anymore as examples. I apologize.

Hi Corey,

I should probably be apologising for taking that tone. Andrew's spoken and feels that he would like to be credited if people re-post his images; that's good enough for me, and he doesn't need me to fight his battles, supposing he has any. I think I was in a bit of a grumpy mood this morning and I'm sorry you got the brunt of it.

Regards,

Mark

[lynseyjo]

pc watkins truncheon??

here are the photos, am having difficulity uploading a forth, a close up of the "edward watkins" writing, keeps exceeding the limit no matter how small i make the file! hope you get the idea though.

left:full view showing edward watkins writing.

middle:view of what i presume to be lead running through the centre of the truncheon.

right:close up of city police writing


as you can see the truncheon is well worn and writing is very crudely done.
hope these are of some intrest.

thanks.

[Archaic]

Hi, Lynsey thanks for uploading the photos.

I am no expert on truncheons, but I did used to own a 19th C. Victorian truncheon; it was black with a big gold VR monogram in fancy script for 'Victoria Regina', Queen Victoria. (I gave it to a friend.)

The difficulty with your truncheon is of course that the inscriptions are "unofficial" and were added afterward.

But thanks very much to you and Chas for following through and providing the photos, it's an interesting little mystery & a great bit of family history.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Monty]

Hi Lynsey Jo,

Firstly many many thanks for taking the time out and posting these images. They are excellent and as someone who has an interest in such items I find them fascinating.

As Archaic stated, most issue trucheons were painted black and had the reigning monarchs initials embossed on the stem, usually painted in gold.

Thats not to state your truncheon isnt standard issue, it may have been stripped. However the embossing would remain unless sanded down.

Some were decorated with the Citys coat of arms, this was used as a form of official identity however this ceased in 1880 when warrant cards came into force.

The good news is that the grip matches. Bad news is most grips of the era matched. Is there a makers name of Hiatt? As these were the suppliers to the City of London force, this can be found on the end of the handle. That or the suppliers name of Parker.

Sorry to bombard you, but these things will help point us in the right direction.

Cheers
Monty

[lynseyjo]

just checked for markings, i cant see any but part of the handle ( the very end) has broken off. unless the makers mark was stamped accross the whole of the end it may have been lost.

[Monty]

Damn, long shot but could have helped us.

No embossing on the stem?

Of course, trucheons were purchased privately and these Billy Clubs were used as protection. Its a possibility that Watkins had his own one. Though its questionable if he would carve his name of collar number into it.

The location of where it was found does concern me, does Chas remember where exactly in Brick Lane he found it, was it near any other side street?

Monty


PS Hiatt were the makers and Parker, Field & son the suppliers, apologies.