H.H. Holmes?

[GregBaron]

Did you all read Mike Covell's blog pointing to the latest ripper 'case closed' suspect? Makes for some fascinating reading...........what do you all think? This psycho obtained medical specimens for profit...........!

Greg

[Madam Red]

If my memory serves me correctly, there's very little possibility that H. H. Holmes is our man. He simply wasn't in the area at the time.

[belinda]

This one was worse. Vastly more sophisticated. Check out his "Murder Hotel" .Not the work of somebody who left their victims to die in the street.

[Mayerling]

For a recent good account of this monster see THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY by Erik Larson.

[YankeeSergeant]

Holmes

For a recent good account of this monster see THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY by Erik Larson.

An excellent book, Erik! If I remember correctly Holmes was not in London at the time and I don't believe he had ever been to London. JtR? no but a warped sicko in his own right.

[Pcdunn]

Found this article dated 2012 about Holmes as JtR (another relative looking for fame, I suppose...)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/hh-holmes-was-jack-the-ripper_n_2231896.html

Did anyone read the book from him, "Bloodstains"?

[gnote]

Beyond MO the part about "writing samples from his notorious ancestor examined by experts suggest that Holmes and Jack the Ripper are, in fact, the same person" made me lose interest right away.

How many suspects have been brought up as viable because of handwriting "matches" alone?

[GUT]

Beyond MO the part about "writing samples from his notorious ancestor examined by experts suggest that Holmes and Jack the Ripper are, in fact, the same person" made me lose interest right away.

How many suspects have been brought up as viable because of handwriting "matches" alone?

What I don't get is how many people seem to be able to decide which of the 100s if not 1000s of letter [that clearly didn't all come from one person] were actually from the killer. [If any were].

[gnote]

What I don't get is how many people seem to be able to decide which of the 100s if not 1000s of letter [that clearly didn't all come from one person] were actually from the killer. [If any were].

Like with just about every other thing about JTR it's speculation. However if you ask somebody who hasn't followed the case to list some things they know about Jack one of them almost certainly will be "he wrote letters to the police". Therefore the quickest and easiest way to link somebody is of course with hand writing. I don't know what letters they are using for samples but i'd be willing to bet either Dear Boss or From Hell.

Even if one of the letters was genuine and known for a fact to be (for example like some of the Zodiac communications) the amount of "matches" still bothers me. It makes me question the legitimacy of handwriting analysis in general.

[GUT]

Like with just about every other thing about JTR it's speculation. However if you ask somebody who hasn't followed the case to list some things they know about Jack one of them almost certainly will be "he wrote letters to the police". Therefore the quickest and easiest way to link somebody is of course with hand writing. I don't know what letters they are using for samples but i'd be willing to bet either Dear Boss or From Hell.

Even if one of the letters was genuine and known for a fact to be (for example like some of the Zodiac communications) the amount of "matches" still bothers me. It makes me question the legitimacy of handwriting analysis in general.

Handwriting analysis by a qualified document examiner can be extremely accurate.

[gnote]

Handwriting analysis by a qualified document examiner can be extremely accurate.

So are there a number of people that call themselves hand writing experts but are basically the equivalent of alternative medicine "doctors"? The reason i ask is because of what i brought up earlier. I've heard numerous times that a certain suspect's hand writing was similar or a match to the Ripper letters.

[GUT]

So are there a number of people that call themselves hand writing experts but are basically the equivalent of alternative medicine "doctors"? The reason i ask is because of what i brought up earlier. I've heard numerous times that a certain suspect's hand writing was similar or a match to the Ripper letters.

Yes.

There are also people who claim to be able to tell someone's personality from their handwritting, and also claim to be handwriting experts, I actually would place them a LOT lower in comparison to a Document examiner than the comparison you use.

A true document examiner compares not just the appearance of the writing in question but lifts and starts and pressure and will even go into ink and per types. As a rule they are also subject to random tests [the ones I deal with anyway] where various "known" documents are presented to them so ther conclusions can be actually checked.

Ie they might be sent two documents by the same person who tries to hide his style or two documents that look very similar by different people.

[gnote]

Yes.

There are also people who claim to be able to tell someone's personality from their handwritting, and also claim to be handwriting experts, I actually would place them a LOT lower in comparison to a Document examiner than the comparison you use.

A true document examiner compares not just the appearance of the writing in question but lifts and starts and pressure and will even go into ink and per types. As a rule they are also subject to random tests [the ones I deal with anyway] where various "known" documents are presented to them so ther conclusions can be actually checked.

Ie they might be sent two documents by the same person who tries to hide his style or two documents that look very similar by different people.

Thanks for the information. I figure this is much ado about nothing as we don't know if the Ripper actually wrote any of the letters.

One (hopefully) final question about document/hand writing analysis. Is there some kind of certification that qualifies somebody as an expert in the field? (especially in regards to hand writing) Or another way of putting it, is there a quick way to distinguish an actual expert who can speak with a degree of scientific certainty vs somebody who might perform such analysis without any formal training or authority?

[GUT]

Thanks for the information. I figure this is much ado about nothing as we don't know if the Ripper actually wrote any of the letters.

One (hopefully) final question about document/hand writing analysis. Is there some kind of certification that qualifies somebody as an expert in the field? (especially in regards to hand writing) Or another way of putting it, is there a quick way to distinguish an actual expert who can speak with a degree of scientific certainty vs somebody who might perform such analysis without any formal training or authority?

Different countries have different bodies generally anyone who titles themselves a Forensic Document Examiner is possibly on the up and up. In the USA they would also be a member of The American Society of Questioned Document Examiners or The American Board of Forensic Document Examiners. They also should have a degree in Forensic Sciences.

If they call themselves a handwriting analysist or a graphologist RUN.

Feel free to ask anything else.

[Pcdunn]

I mentioned Jack the Ripper on another forum, and a poster stated she thought the case for Holmes was very strong. I said Casebook posters discounted him due his MO and that he wasn`t in London. She answered she had read the book and interviewed the descendent who wrote it, and that there was proof Holmes had been in London at the right time.
I think his MO in Chicago was vastly different, and that he was a sadist, but he might be
worth another look.