Jacob The Ripper?

[GregBaron]

Perfect Locale...

Yes, look into cattle keeper George Bolam, who kept a yard across from Butcher's Row and another near Levy on Middlesex St.

Many crazy Jews at that time? Probably from drinking bad London water.

Hi Scott

Yes there seem to have been a number of candidates for the mantle of crazy Jew, which again makes one think that the "Kosminski" of Anderson/Swanson might have been a generic name for any one of them: Kosminski, Jacob Levy, David Cohen, Hyam Hyams, . . . take your pick.

Cheers

Chris

Hi guys,

Wasn't Jacob Isenschmid a Jew also even though his records state Church of England? What about Klosowski?

A few crazy gentiles as well including Fleming, Cutbush etc.

It was either the water or a requirement of our perp...

The following map by Jane Coram shows Middlesex Street running diagonally north to south on the left (west side) of the area. All of the murder locations are within a mile of each other, so anyone living in the area would be within a few minutes' walk of the murder scenes. When I was in London for the Ripper convention at the City Hotel, Osborne Street (the continuation of Brick Lane on the map -- Tabram's name obscures it) last October, I was able to walk from the hotel along Whitechapel Road to a post office near the London Hospital and achieved the walk in 15 minutes.

Thanks a lot Chris, this is exactly what I sought. Middlesex really is a perfect location and right next to Ghoulston street as well, not to mention Mitre Square!




Greg

[ChrisGeorge]

Yes, look into cattle keeper George Bolam, who kept a yard across from Butcher's Row and another near Levy on Middlesex St.

Many crazy Jews at that time? Probably from drinking bad London water.

Hi Scott

Yes there seem to have been a number of candidates for the mantle of crazy Jew, which again makes one think that the "Kosminski" of Anderson/Swanson might have been a generic name for any one of them: Kosminski, Jacob Levy, David Cohen, Hyam Hyams, . . . take your pick.

Cheers

Chris

[ChrisGeorge]

I want to fire this thread up again boys and girls. I was very intrigued by the JL article.

Many people today and 124 years ago thought the fiend a crazy Jew. We have many crazy Jews to choose from but Jacob L. might lead the parade.

The police were supposed to be watching someone and I remember an article concerning butcher's row. Do we know where the surveillance took place or is it only a guessing game?

Also, I'm not very good at searching for maps and stuff. Can someone point me to a map that shows Middlesex Street? I wonder if any photos of said street exist from way back? It seems like an ideal place for the ripper to live. It would be interesting to trace back from each murder site to Jacob's house and see how far and how long it might take.

I hope there are further avenues for research on this guy as he's definitely a person of interest............


Greg

Hi Greg

The following map by Jane Coram shows Middlesex Street running diagonally north to south on the left (west side) of the area. All of the murder locations are within a mile of each other, so anyone living in the area would be within a few minutes' walk of the murder scenes. When I was in London for the Ripper convention at the City Hotel, Osborne Street (the continuation of Brick Lane on the map -- Tabram's name obscures it) last October, I was able to walk from the hotel along Whitechapel Road to a post office near the London Hospital and achieved the walk in 15 minutes.

Best regards

Chris George

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, look into cattle keeper George Bolam, who kept a yard across from Butcher's Row and another near Levy on Middlesex St.

Many crazy Jews at that time? Probably from drinking bad London water.

[GregBaron]

Light the thread again...

I want to fire this thread up again boys and girls. I was very intrigued by the JL article.

Many people today and 124 years ago thought the fiend a crazy Jew. We have many crazy Jews to choose from but Jacob L. might lead the parade.

The police were supposed to be watching someone and I remember an article concerning butcher's row. Do we know where the surveillance took place or is it only a guessing game?

Also, I'm not very good at searching for maps and stuff. Can someone point me to a map that shows Middlesex Street? I wonder if any photos of said street exist from way back? It seems like an ideal place for the ripper to live. It would be interesting to trace back from each murder site to Jacob's house and see how far and how long it might take.

I hope there are further avenues for research on this guy as he's definitely a person of interest............


Greg

[Jimi]

Ripperoligist Feb 2012

Hi All
Myself and Tracy would like to point out that an article is appearing in this months Ripperologist (first week in feb. 2012), containing info and documents never before seen in print.
We would like to extend our gratitude to all at Ripperologist for their help.
There is also our grateful thanks to be extended to Debra Arrif, Chris Phillips and Adam Went.
Keep Well
Jimi

[tji]

Hi Wendy

Nice to meet you and welcome to the boards - I (along with Jimi) have spent some time researching Jacob.

I would also love to hear some of your family history, we know a few of the marriages of Jacobs sons after 1911 but after that we lose track a little. Was your g. grandmother related through the male Levy or the Abrahams (through Sarah) or the Barnett's, (through Elizabeth) do you know at all?

Tracy

[lynn cates]

welcome

Hello Wendy. Welcome to the boards. Delighted you have been benefited.

Would you care to add any personal reminiscences or family history?

Cheers.
LC

[wendyla]

Jacob Levy

Hi all,
I am desdendent of Jacob Levy. He would have been my great grandmother's uncle. Fascinating hearing all this information. I knew about some of it from my genealogy searches but I have also learnt new information.

Wendy

[alex_the_droog]

Allright trying to continue the Jacob Levy as a suspect discussion from the "Name your top 3 suspects" thread with a few questions.

- Are the asylum papers of Jacob Levy public and has anyone seen them?
- What do people think of the conclusions in the Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper game - have they made any mistakes?
- Any proof of Levy being a memeber of the International Working Mens Club in Berner St.?
- Any newspaper reports about him?

Hi Kasper! I have just completed the Sherlock Homes v JTR game and i found the investigation on Levy rather interesting and has pricked my interest in him. I didnt know too much about this suspect prior to this, so i cant comment on any mistakes, but the investigation was quite plausible IMO.
A rather enjoyable romp! Shame about the Dear Boss letter!

Chris

[tji]

Hi Man flex

Welcome to the thread

These are all possibilities, I suppose, until we know why the apron/graffiti (for those who think it was jtr) was actually left there then the majority of hypothesis have some merit.

I personally am still undecided whether his brother living next door to where the apron was left in the Wentworth buildings goes for it being Jacob or against....I suppose people's decisions would be based on whether the apron was left there on purpose or just discarded to decide which hypothesis fit better.

Tj

[Man Flex]

Just a thought....

What if, after the murder of Kate Eddowes, Jacob returns home with his goulish trophies and the apron. He disposes of his Kate's organs but then realises that he has evidence which links him to the crime so he has to get rid of it and quick. He cleans himself up and then ventures out again and throws the apron down into the stairwell in Goulston Street perhaps then writing some cryptic message on the wall.

There is a suggestion that the apron was not placed there until perhaps an hour after the crime was committed. Was JTR lurking in the back streets of Aldgate for all this time or was he safe in his home maybe only yards from Mitre Square?

The "Lusk" kidney had been trimmed up and this is something a butcher would have done instinctively prior to cooking.

It is not unknown for serial killers to eat their victims - maybe JTR really did eat the kidney?

I wouldn't discount anything after what he did to Kate (and Annie and Mary).

[tji]

I have moved this from the Mile End vigilance thread as Jacob is so off topic on that thread.

Maria

Yes I am perfectly serious, why would I not be?

There was never a mix-up with Jacob Levy's - we put forward a chance that the Jacob Levy of 1974 arrested for sexual assault may have been our Jacob Levy. There was no confusion. It wasn't until Debs found the newspaper report given more details that we found out it wasn't our Jacob.

So because he was 5ft 2 that makes him much weaker than you - are you serious?
It doesn't work like that Maria, he was a butcher so he would at the very least he would have very strong arms and shoulders, you ever tried cutting through bone and muscle, believe me it is very hard. (I grew up with a dad who worked as a butcher.)

When you say Lyam Levy - I am assuming you mean Joseph Levy - his cousin?

Tj

[Sister Hyde]

Yeah i guess i should stop bugging her with it, she'll just keep getting vulgar if i force anyway. lucky you're here to enlight us on these points, but yes the jewish identity is very different now, however the community is still very united, even toward the atheists and non practicing sheeps of the community, i see it every day with the nanny of my son. it's just that a better understanding of the way the community was working back then can help us explain the behaviour of Joseph Levy and the 2 other witnesses of Eddowes'.

[Errata]

I don't think i'll get any "cultural/religious" information from my grandmother, i think the nuns have definitely managed to brainwash her (which must be very easy on a very young child who's being placed here to be hidden from the Nazis and ends up growing there up to age 16, she even denies being a jew, very pathetic for a woman called Yvana David)

I take it she was a part of Kindertransport? Jews throughout history have had a multitude of identity problems, and in fact one of those periods was during the late 19th century. But the Holocaust was very different, and I doubt the nuns had a great deal of impact on her Jewish identity. Jews have sort of a unique situation in which we have a religious identity and a cultural identity. And a great deal of this began in Victorian times. There are any number of people who identify themselves as Jews, but are atheists. They embrace the cultural identity, but not the religious one. In fact, in my whole family as far as I know I am the only one who believes in any kind of god, and it's not even the Jewish one.

Before Victorian times, Jews were much more likely to have their identity externally imposed. But we also didn't have the religion/culture split we have today. If a Jew married a non-Jew, they were no longer Jewish. If they were an atheist, no longer Jewish. The Victorian Era was the beginning of that split, and it was slow going. Then the Holocaust started, and all of the definitions didn't matter anymore. Though no one in the Jewish community knew you or recognized you as a Jew, you could still go to the gas chambers.

And for someone like your Grandmother, a child, with no control over even her basic survival, it was like a nightmare. She probably wasn't even old enough to know what "Jewish" was, but she knew it was a potentially deadly thing to be. And she knew that because of it she lost her family, and her friends, and her home. Why on earth should she embrace it? Judaism is tough... it's not a loving religion, it's not an easy culture. I'm always surprised when people convert. She would have had no Jewish education during the war... and she would have had no reason to pursue it afterwards. It's an abstract concept that killed millions, and personally hurt her terribly. Why would she go back to being a Jew, especially when she was likely young enough that there were almost no memories of Judaism? Your grandmother isn't Jewish. The religion and the culture were no part of her formative years, just the reason for a great deal of personal tragedy.

Being born Jewish gives you a free pass into Judaism, but it doesn't make you Jewish. That you have to choose, and there is no shame whatsoever in her choosing to not be Jewish. Many did, after the Holocaust, after the Inquisition. Sometimes later generations embraced it again. But because it is something that is so informative on a person, it cannot be compelled. So give her a break... she is a product of the sum of her experiences, and if she has led a full and meaningful life without Judaism being a part of it, more power to her.

well, that was probably ragingly off topic