Jacob The Ripper?

[tji]

Hi Chris

I have been searching all week, trying pigot, post office ancestry census reports google, to find this out!!!

Should have just asked.

Can I ask when it was knocked down as the map I saw had the Aldgate Station behind with the three nuns at number 10, bar at 11, Bodmin Office 12 and just an s for 13.

Tj

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks Roy for the link to historical directories, however it is not letting me connect to it.

You're welcome. Here's the link. http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/

Good luck,
Roy

[Scott Nelson]

Correct Chris. The underground rail was completed through the Haydon Goods station in 1876 (an above ground merchandise loading point) and continued underneath AHS. There were originally butcher's shops on the south side of the street in this location (including that of the prominent Jew Frederick Louisson) that had to be demolished for the construction of the underground. Louisson's son George, assumed ownership of Solomon De Leeuw's shop in 1891.

Frederick, incidentally, was present the following year (1892) at the Three Nuns Hotel for Frederick Abberline's retirement ceremony, as were several other butchers working on the row. Isaac Davis presided.

[Chris]

Frederick, incidentally, was present the following year (1892) at the Three Nuns Hotel for Frederick Abberline's retirement ceremony, as were several other butchers working on the row. Isaac Davis presided.

Thanks for this. I see I need to have another careful read of your dissertation on Butchers' Row to make sure I'm not missing anything else ...

[tji]

Hi all

Just some observations/questions that we have had while researching:-

How does Sarah Levy (Jacob's wife) not contract syphillis. It has been put forward that Jacob didn't have sex with her and yet she had children up to 1890.

Joseph Levy born 1880
Isaac Levy born 1881
Lewis Levy born 1884
Hannah Levy born 1885
Nathan Levy born 1887
Jacob Levy born 1888
Caroline Levy born 1889
Moss levy born 1890.

While it has crossed our minds that maybe some weren't his children we have no proof of this as we have no days and months.

However he was imprisoned in 1886 and 1890, these years she had no children, so I think we can assume they are his children, so if this is the case we can say she was having sex with him upto 1890 at least, is this not a bit like Russian roulette?


Why did no family visit him at the asylum when they seemed to be a close family?



Why would Isaac Barnett take in a 'mad man' - he had a family of his own. Did he not feel threatened for them?

Tj

[Mycroft]

[QUOTE=tji;129254]Hi all


How does Sarah Levy (Jacob's wife) not contract syphillis. It has been put forward that Jacob didn't have sex with her and yet she had children up to 1890.


As far as I see it, there are only 3 possibilities. Either she had sex with him and did not get infected, unlikely over all that time. They did not have sex and he is not the father of the children, possible, but again I think unlikely. He is the father and she also had syphillis, most likely. As far as I know, you can have syphillis, but not show the signs for years.

[tji]

Hi Mycroft

Yeah I think maybe it could be the third one because as I said earlier (although I am no mathematician) the dates seem to correspond with his incacerations.

We know Sarah was living at 7 New Street in the 1901 census, but can't find her after that. It would be interesting to see when she died and what of.

tj

[Versa]

Hi all

Just some observations/questions that we have had while researching:-

How does Sarah Levy (Jacob's wife) not contract syphillis. It has been put forward that Jacob didn't have sex with her and yet she had children up to 1890.

Joseph Levy born 1880
Isaac Levy born 1881
Lewis Levy born 1884
Hannah Levy born 1885
Nathan Levy born 1887
Jacob Levy born 1888
Caroline Levy born 1889
Moss levy born 1890.

While it has crossed our minds that maybe some weren't his children we have no proof of this as we have no days and months.

However he was imprisoned in 1886 and 1890, these years she had no children, so I think we can assume they are his children, so if this is the case we can say she was having sex with him upto 1890 at least, is this not a bit like Russian roulette?


Why did no family visit him at the asylum when they seemed to be a close family?



Why would Isaac Barnett take in a 'mad man' - he had a family of his own. Did he not feel threatened for them?

Tj

As far as im aware syphilus is only contractable via intercourse when the sufferer has a 'flair-up', between flair-ups a person with syphilus can have unprotected sex without risk of it being transfered.

[Kaspar]

Allright trying to continue the Jacob Levy as a suspect discussion from the "Name your top 3 suspects" thread with a few questions.

- Are the asylum papers of Jacob Levy public and has anyone seen them?
- What do people think of the conclusions in the Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper game - have they made any mistakes?
- Any proof of Levy being a memeber of the International Working Mens Club in Berner St.?
- Any newspaper reports about him?

[Jimi]

jacob the ripper

Hi All
Hi Kaspar
In answer to your questions-:
1. I have never seen Jacobs asylum records in print, and believe me i`ve tried, the elusive Mark king was i believe the first to quote Jacobs asylum records but where he got his information from i don`t know. I have seen a fraction of these records( a couple of part pages) which were showm on "The Mystery Files" broadcast but not a lot could be gained.
2. I wouldn`t know, i`ve never played the game. TJI will tell you, she plays all the p.c. games. She`s a housewife
3. None whatsoever, to my current knowledge. ( you thinking Liz Stride connection, perhaps.)
4. Newspaper reports on Jacob Levy, hmmm, there is the court trial and sentencing report on his theft of meat from Hyman Sampson in 1886 and there are a lot of hits to Jacob Levy`s in search engine regarding crimes but proving they are this Jacob is impossible. Go To www. oldbaileyonline.org and type in Jacob Levy at Search to see his conviction.
When you have read it you may be interested to note his sentence is imprisonment. Yet he is sent to an asylum. Strange or what?
hope this helps.
Keep Well
Jimi

[Kaspar]

Hi All
Hi Kaspar
In answer to your questions-:
1. I have never seen Jacobs asylum records in print, and believe me i`ve tried, the elusive Mark king was i believe the first to quote Jacobs asylum records but where he got his information from i don`t know. I have seen a fraction of these records( a couple of part pages) which were showm on "The Mystery Files" broadcast but not a lot could be gained.
2. I wouldn`t know, i`ve never played the game. TJI will tell you, she plays all the p.c. games. She`s a housewife
3. None whatsoever, to my current knowledge. ( you thinking Liz Stride connection, perhaps.)
4. Newspaper reports on Jacob Levy, hmmm, there is the court trial and sentencing report on his theft of meat from Hyman Sampson in 1886 and there are a lot of hits to Jacob Levy`s in search engine regarding crimes but proving they are this Jacob is impossible. Go To www. oldbaileyonline.org and type in Jacob Levy at Search to see his conviction.
When you have read it you may be interested to note his sentence is imprisonment. Yet he is sent to an asylum. Strange or what?
hope this helps.
Keep Well
Jimi

Hi Jimi,

thank you for your replies.
I really must see this Mystery Files programme, I hope someone puts it on youtube as the Video on Demand from NGC don't seem to work in Denmark where I live and NGC in Denmark have not shown the programme.
To your knowledge have there been any general common ground with which people have dismissed him as a suspect?
Is there any link in the Goulston St. theft case and the graphity in Goulston St. - was the graphity in the hallway of Hyman Sampson's shop or private lodgings?

[Jimi]

Hi Kaspar
The general common ground oft quoted against Jacob is lack of proof, and i agree, but no less so than Kosmininski, Druitt et al. The reason TJI and myself started this thread was to raise the consideration of jacob Levy being JTR.
Personally, i don`t believe that the GSG and the apron are linked, but i could be dissuaded otherwise. As to any link with hyman sampsons i would have to get back to you, i do have his home address in 1888 but i will have to look it up, top of my head i don`t think there was any link.
Keep Well
Jimi

[Scott Nelson]

I said before that Jacob was too fat to be the Ripper. Also, the only reason Mark King focused his research on Jacob is because Jacob was the cousin of King's favored witness, Joseph Hyam Levy.

[tji]

Hi versa

As far as im aware syphilus is only contractable via intercourse when the sufferer has a 'flair-up', between flair-ups a person with syphilus can have unprotected sex without risk of it being transfered

Thanks for the reply, sorry I have taken so long responding.

I have finally done a little research, condensed version -:apparently there are 4 stages of syphilis.

Stage 1 primary stage - this is marked by an infectious sore called a chancre. Chancres last between 1-5 weeks and heals on it's own.

Stage 2 secondary stage - is characterized by a rash that does not itch. This can be on the palm of you r hands and soles of your feet. It can also look like prickly heat or small blotches, a bad case of acne, moist warts on the groin, slimy white patches in the mouth, coin sized dark circles or chicken pox like bumps. Other symptoms are fever, swollen glands, sore throat, patchy hair loss, headaches, weight loss, muscle aches and tiredness.
2nd stage signs and symptoms last 2- 6 weeks and clear up om their own.

If untreated, the infection progresses to the latent stage (stage 3) during which symptoms disappear and the disease is no longer contagious.

The time between exposure and the first symptom can range from 10 days - 90 days (average 21 days)

So if we take the average time from contacting syphilis to the end of the second stage Jacob would have needed not to have had sex with Sarah for an average of 14 week. Not impossible I suppose. (3 weeks + 6 weeks + 5 weeks,)


Tj

[tji]

Hi

2. I wouldn`t know, i`ve never played the game. TJI will tell you, she plays all the p.c. games. She`s a housewife

Cheeky git lol -

Hi Kaspar

Ironically I have played all Sherlock Holmes games but this one, I couldn't believe it when I heard they had picked Jacob Levy out of all suspects, I would love to know who they got to do the research!!!

I am sure if they have made any mistakes people on the boards will let us know

Tj