Jacob The Ripper?

[martin wilson]

Hi Tracey,

Thanks, I looked at religious mania as a motive when looking at Aaron Kosminski. Judaism, quite a challenge for an ignorant atheist. but actually a very beautiful, profound religion, at least what I understood of it.

As you can see from the lovely Errata's post, it's a whole world and a lifetime, but if you do get into that, at least you know who to ask!

Hi Errata.

Stunning, as always, I read somewhere the four manifestations of Lilith were at the cardinal points, is that right or have I been too stupidly literal?

All the best.

[GregBaron]

Give the devil his due...

I believe Jacob to be a very viable suspect due to the researches of Tracy and her cohorts.

With some massaging around the edges of the many human errors made at that time, I think one can, with a bit of lube, slide Jacob into the square peg..

I'd love to see anything new but realize it's no easy task...

Jacob deserves more attention than he gets...


Greg

[tji]

Hi Martin

Thanks for the reply, some interesting thoughts there, you obviously have looked into it.

I personally don't think your ideas are relevant to Jacob (Levy) because I don't think they were the type of trigger he would have had.
Your suggestions would point to someone with a very ingrained impression of the Jewish religion and beliefs. I don't get that impression form Jacob.

Lynn has done a great job researching Isenschmid.

Tracy

[Errata]

Hi Jimi and tji

Some stuff for you to google or not, some out of left field.

Estrie, jewish vampire, you had to cut it's head off.

Lilith.

Torah prohibition on sole witnesses.

Small peaked cap. Kashket, can be seen on the Jewish Encylopedia.

Thompson and Long, Chapman murder, both described a jew.

All the best.

Wow... I am continually amazed at the stuff on the internet. I don't know why I didn't expect some of this stuff to be out there, but I didn't.

Estries: Nice. And a fine reason for a psychotic to dismember and behead women, which isn't exactly what happened but irrational behavior does not always beget rational behavior.

The problem is that it is a superstition confined to German Jews. Probably brought to them by the Crusaders killing them in the 12th century. Because we already have a tradition of female soul sucking demons it would be highly unusual to adopt another tradition of basically the same thing. And it is not a part of Russian or Polish tradition even today. German Jews are also the only ones who had werewolves. It must be the forests there.

Lilith: She is seen as two separate things in Judaism. She is either the first feminist, or she is the first demon. Lilith was used as a biblical reference to divorce, she and Adam being the first to get out of a marriage. Judaism sees cause on both sides for that divorce. It's why a woman can sue for divorce against her husband if she has witnesses. It's not just a man's purview. So she is the first woman to get out of a bad marriage. On the other hand, because she was left to die alone and single, she is also the demon who kills babies and pregnant women out of jealousy. And Jews to this day hang charms in nurseries to keep her away. And she is essentially a succubus. She is not all these things to all people, and she isn't even all these things in Jewish tradition at the same time. It's like there is four of them, and each one is treated as a separate influence. The wife is not the demon is not the succubus is not the destroyer of mankind. A text referring to one of the aspects only refers to that aspect. She is a bit of a catch all.

Men did not fear Lilith. Just like men did not fear succubi. It's an excuse, not a threat. But just because rational men did no fear her does not mean that an irrational one won't. But in Jewish tradition her primary role is causing crib death.

Sole Witnesses: Holy crap you found the Makkot. I was serving as a witness for a friend getting a divorce and it took us about a month to find a copy so we could get what we needed. It's not rare because it's rare, it's rare because the only people who read it serve on Rabbinical councils, and that's not a lot of people. It's not taught. And you are right. The Makkot does require two witnesses who saw the crime together for a murder trial. But that only applies to a Jewish victim. If a Jew kills non Jew, he is not tried in a Jewish court. He is turned over to the justice system of his victim, or nothing. There is no prohibition against testifying in a foreign court, but the penalty for lying is pretty stiff. It's death. Bearing false witness is one of the big no nos.

Kashkettel: It is worn by Hasids. But it's only been worn by Hasids. And that is a very specific brand of Judaism. It is orthodoxy, a type of spiritualism, very socialist in a way, but it's pretty intense. The kaskettel goes with tzitzit and a beard and the peyos and the whole deal. The kashkettel is used as a ritual head covering. Without the other signifying marks of a Hasid, it's just a Polish hat. Or left over from a uniform. Ergo, not the mark of a Jew. Which doesn't mean a secular Jew isn't wearing one, but it doesn't identify him as a Jew.

Identifications: Unless they knew the person they saw, I don't care what the guy looked like, they couldn't know he was a Jew. He may have been, he may not have been. But not everyone with a southern accent is a Baptist, and not all Jews look alike. Russian Jews look Russian. German Jews look German. Native American Jews (it happens) look Native American.

[martin wilson]

Hi both

Cards on the table, I really like Mr Cate's lad.
Or someone like him, Jacob Levy fits the bill as well as any
To steal a phrase from the late,great, Ian McDonald 'chaos attracts psychopaths' and imho, it's the reporting of Martha Tabram's death that may have acted as a trigger.
The bell curve would have swooning maiden aunts at one end, the rest of us somewhere in the middle with a mixture of horror, revulsion and lets be honest. prurience.
There would even have been some who thought 'good riddance'.
but at the other end would have been someone who read or heard about the murder and whose reaction would have been very,very different, and a brand new, very dangerous idea is born.
ok, that's my tuppence worth.
All the best.

[martin wilson]

Hi Jimi and tji

Some stuff for you to google or not, some out of left field.

Estrie, jewish vampire, you had to cut it's head off.

Lilith.

Torah prohibition on sole witnesses.

Small peaked cap. Kashket, can be seen on the Jewish Encylopedia.

Thompson and Long, Chapman murder, both described a jew.

All the best.

[tji]

Hi gnote

Thanks for the interest

yup there is some new stuff we are looking into, some has brought very interesting results, in my opinion at least. Some good, some bad. However we still have things we need to look into.

Tracy

[gnote]

Thought I would just bump this thread for any questions people may have on Jacob as a suspect.

Tracy

I will ask a very broadly scoped one. Is there anything new?

[tji]

Thought I would just bump this thread for any questions people may have on Jacob as a suspect.

Tracy

[GregBaron]

Jacob returns...

Hi Greg

I am really pleased you see him as a good suspect Greg, feel free to pm me or Jimi or e-mail t.ianson@ntlworld.com if you have any questions or want something explaining in more detail.

Tracy

I do and I will Tracy. Grazie.


Greg

[tji]

Hi Greg

My sincere apologies, things have indeed settled down now, thanks to you all for your kind words.

Haven't managed to have a lot of time to myself last few weeks to spend on the boards, but give me a few hours and I should be able to post them up on here.

I am really pleased you see him as a good suspect Greg, feel free to pm me or Jimi or e-mail t.ianson@ntlworld.com if you have any questions or want something explaining in more detail.

Tracy

[GregBaron]

Patience my son...

Hi all,

I hope the various family problems have been overcome. All of us out here are a bit mad after all. At least we are mad people with patience. 124 years and we're undaunted. I expect the obsession will last till the graveyard for many of us, hopefully we won't meet the ripper in the afterlife......Ha

Anyway, I still look forward to any synopsis on Jacob Levy and further research and/or discussion of said fellow. I find him to be a person of significant interest.

But please, if family matters persist, I understand, so just ignore this post until the appropriate time. And thanks to all concerned for sharing Jacob Levy revelations..


Greg

[Robert]

Hi Tracy

Sorry to read of your problems. JTR can indeed wait. He's not going anywhere, unless there's a Plan Nine From Outer Space resurrection scenario.

[Errata]

I sort of harp on the maternal aspect because from very early on, it appeared to me the killer had some sort of mother issues because of the ages of the women and the considerably earlier ages of the men seen with the victims.

My History of Psychology teacher was taking a lot of flak during Freud and Psychoanalysis and finally assigned us each a "sapient" animal to research in regard to maternal and paternal behavior. Dolphins, whales, apes, crows... and then when we had all presented our findings, he presented the "average" American maternal relationship, and it is in fact so freaking convoluted it is the second most complicated relationship any human ever has. And the first is the relationship between two humans who require something of each other and share no cultural similarities (different race, language, gestures etc.)

He said "Of COURSE Freud wants to know about your mother. Half of the human race feel compelled to roll their eyes at the mere mention of their mother, and the rest have actual problems with that relationship. Everyone has mommy issues, whether they realize or not. It. Is. About. Your. Mother."

I mean, I'm not the only person who has eaten a specific dish I detest on a regular basis because I wanted it once in fourth grade and I don't know how to tell my Mom that I hate ratatouille, when she takes such pleasure in taking care of her adult daughter. Not a problem I have with anyone else, and not a problem whales have at all. I'm just sayin... it's about the mother. It's always about the mother.

[curious]

Hi all

Just a quick post to apologise in the delay in getting the new Jacob Levy summary from the article onto the boards. I am hoping to post it sometime this week.

In our defence we have had a few 'eventful' days that include the death of a much loved family dog Jade midweek. Saturday morning my uncle died and Saturday afternoon saw Nigel in a car crash.

Also had to organise Nige's dad's first year memorial party yesterday and help with the funeral for my uncle. So it isn't that we have lost interest, just not had chance, dad has made a start on it and hopefully we should get it to the boards over the next few days.

Thanks all for your patience

Tracy

So sorry for all your troubles. A very bad week indeed. As Lynn said, with all that hanging over you, Ripper stuff can wait. it's only been 120+ years after all . . .