Help Track A Suspect: Butcher

[DaveMc]

(I already hate me for doing this so soon)

My default position is that Macnaghten named the killer among his suspects.
With all due apologies to the London authorities,
I'm not looking for any of those.

I'm just going to spew it out and wrangle it into making sense if you have questions.

------------
all that said...
------------

I'm looking for slaughterhouses in the East of London (proper) or in the East End near the Polly Nichols murder.

The two location theories are from the American FBI belief that the first attack would be in a place the killer was comfortable (close to home). But that could mean work as well if he walked that way home.

The other location is the night of the Stride/Eddowes attacks. Having failed to satisfy himself, he stumbled upon Eddowes on his way to his actual home area.

As a butcher who wrangles, slays and guts pigs, he has the knowledge and skill to commit the crimes.
(pigs are human simulates in modern science)
He has a reason to explain the occasional blood stains as he walks the streets.
The method of taking a live animal is similar to his method.
(Immobilize, cut throat, dissect)
He's practiced at limiting the amount of blood contact and clean up.
He's fast with his act or "work" ( a term I despise using)
His ability to locate and extract organs by touch is almost instinctive.

He has experienced the "cruelty to animals" and "menial job" psychological requirements of modern profiling.

Probably single and can save his money for a set of finer clothes.

Not the first born son in his family.
Family is at least skilled tradesmen.
(Is that Mr. Flemming, DVV Dave? )

Irish or Scot because of his blotchy or sunburned skin (naturally fair)
He sunburns easily.
His hair (mustache) lightens after long exposure to the sun.

A day laborer (labourer, in English) who works in the pens and moves the animals onto the hooks and guts them. (could be an experienced supervisor of the yard)
He's regularly employed. He's a senior man on the job.

Further on his location is near a Chinese area of London.
The Chinese employed the consumption of pig's uterus for food.

He may have, indeed, sent the kidney portion to Lusk and the letter is genuine. (said to be from an Irishman)

Left London, married, committed to asylum, or died after the Kelly murders.

---------
There you go, detectives.
That's my working thesis.... today at least.

Find him.

[Patches]

I'm new to this too. Interesting piece of work, Dave. I have always thought JtR to be employed in an above menial possition. He strikes me as too compitent a person to be of less than average intelligence, but that dosn't mean you wouldn't find an intelligent person woking in a meat yard. A supervisor? Could be. Certainly a slaughterhouse would satisfy his need for blood and pain.

Something tells me he was climbing the social ladder. That is, he was born into a poor family but was of that next generation which is not trapped into the same labor as his father. But like many in this possition, he had not yet climbed much further than a petty clerk. He would have a better education than his parents and more opportunities, but not so much so as to take him away to a career making big money. It would explain why he was of presentable appearance, but would be crawling around the East End with expertise and ease. I have always thought him to be found in the white collar sector with an early history in manual labor. But by all accounts, a butcher would make a prime suspect!

[Tom_Wescott]

Dave,

Do you mean other than the slaughtermen who were called to the Nichols inquest? Someone chalked on their door 'The murderers are here', and that was the first graffiti associated with the murders.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi DaveMc,

Nichols: Harrison Barber slaughterhouse, Winthrop Street.

Chapman: Harrison Barber slaughterhouse, Barber's Yard, Hanbury Street.

Eddowes: Slaughterhouse, Harrow Alley, Aldgate.

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Simon

[Radical Joe]

Hi,

So, we're looking for a fair-skinned Irish or Scotsman who lived on his own (near Bucks Row), worked with animals, and who held a position of some responsibility?

I'm getting the reasoning behind the 'butcher' bit, but not the rest. Apart from the dubious 'Sor' connection in the dubious Lusk letter, what else makes you think he was Irish or Scottish - or, for that matter, that he burned easily?

[Patches]

Hi,


I'm getting the reasoning behind the 'butcher' bit, but not the rest. Apart from the dubious 'Sor' connection in the dubious Lusk letter, what else makes you think he was Irish or Scottish - or, for that matter, that he burned easily?

There was one witness on the night of Kelly's murder who claimed to have seen her with a man with a carroty mustache and blotchy skin, but it was concluded he was NOT her killer. The few people we can say may have seen JtR all say he was of dark complexion, or, that he appeared foreign.

[Ben]

Hi Patches,

The few people we can say may have seen JtR all say he was of dark complexion, or, that he appeared foreign.

Not quite. The only witnesses who described foreign-looking suspects were either discredited or not invested with much significance owing to the fact that they had only acquired a rear view of their suspects. The only witness who was definitely used in identity attempts after 1888 was Joseph Lawende, and he didn't describe anyone dark-complexioned or foreign in appearance. Nor did Israel Schwartz who claimed to have witnessed an attack taking place. There's no evidence that Blotchy was dismissed as Kelly's killer, and a report in the Star would indicate otherwise:

"As we have already said, the only piece of information of any value which has yet transpired is the description given by the widow Cox of a man - short, stout, with a blotchy face and a carroty moustache - who at midnight on Thursday went with the murdered woman into her room."

Hope this helps.

Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

All good points, Ben. Whe Lawende was used by the police to view a witness, in the cases of Sadler and Grant, the suspects were gentile. In the case of Schwartz, one of the men he witnessed was tall and fair-haired (redheaded according to the Star) and the other was apparently spouting anti-Semitic epithets at Schwartz.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Actually Mrs Long never saw the man's face, and Mary was already dead when Hutch gave birth to the fair-complexioned Astrakhan Man.

Amitiés,
David

[Patches]

I thought Hutchison described a dark complexioned man?

[Roy Corduroy]

In the case of Schwartz, one of the men he witnessed was tall and fair-haired (redheaded according to the Star) and the other was apparently spouting anti-Semitic epithets at Schwartz.

Tom, check out Debra's find under the thread she started -

Victims/Stride/ " Lipski - Anti semitic insult?"

Roy

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Roy, thanks for bringing that thread to my attention. However, I should mention that I personally do not have a problem with BS Man having been a Jew, although I consider it unlikely. In the instances Deb's provided, the Jews used 'Lipski' to mean 'murderer', just as a black man might say 'I'll OJ you' today. However, unless one supposes that BS Man was calling Schwartz a murderer, and not calling him a 'Jew', then Deb's examples don't have much of a bearing on the scenario Schwartz described.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DaveMc]

I'm new to this too. Interesting piece of work, Dave. I have always thought JtR to be employed in an above menial possition. He strikes me as too compitent a person to be of less than average intelligence, but that dosn't mean you wouldn't find an intelligent person woking in a meat yard. A supervisor? Could be. Certainly a slaughterhouse would satisfy his need for blood and pain.

Something tells me he was climbing the social ladder. That is, he was born into a poor family but was of that next generation which is not trapped into the same labor as his father. But like many in this possition, he had not yet climbed much further than a petty clerk. He would have a better education than his parents and more opportunities, but not so much so as to take him away to a career making big money. It would explain why he was of presentable appearance, but would be crawling around the East End with expertise and ease. I have always thought him to be found in the white collar sector with an early history in manual labor. But by all accounts, a butcher would make a prime suspect!

Hi Patches.

The thing about his position at work is wild guesswork.
It's an attempt to figure in how much he could afford to spend on clothing, housing, and maybe even a cab on Whitechapel or Commercial street to get out fast.
Again, more speculation. I don't even know if the cabs worked all night.

I thought it best to start the suspect out in a better position and trim away.

[Patches]

Yeah, why I always think him to be white collar is just a hunch. Supposing the eye witness accounts are correct and he did dress presentably, were these his weekend cloths, or were they regular garb? It would make sence that even a poor man who wished to make killing easier would save enough for a nice suit of cloths. You can run a hundred possibilities!

[Patches]

Here is an idea. If the assumption that the killer may have travelled the streets with blood on him did not draw suspicion because of the large number of slaughterhouses in the area, doesn't that mean that the slaughtermen worked weekends? It is often stated that this could explain why a man with blood on his hands drew little suspicion, but it does hurt the butcher theory because Jack, if he were a butcher, should have been at home sleeping for work when he was roaming the streets. In other words, did slaughtermen work M-F, or did they work the weekends?