Please Explain Sickert

[ghoulstonstreet]

Hi Folks, Didn't know exactly where to post this. From reading the posts here I get the impression that the book by the lady author which names the painter Sickert as the Ripper, is not highly regarded. And some think it's rubbish. Be that as it may (and i do not have any particular opinions on it), what is the meaning of Sickert's painting, the one entitled something like "Jack the Ripper's Drawing Room", or something like that? It's very dark, murky and shows an entranceway or a large floor length window. Why was he so concerned, nay, obsessed with the killings? What possible relevance could they have had to his life, which was pretty comfortable after being "officially" approved of by the higher class in England?

[Mike Covell]

Take a look here http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...ndsickert.html

It's a dissertation by Stephen P. Ryder and covers the points. You might try getting hold of Matthew Sturgis book entitled Walter Sickert- A Life which also looks at Cornwell's shoddy research and provides the facts behind the life of this painter.

[Limehouse]

Hi Folks, Didn't know exactly where to post this. From reading the posts here I get the impression that the book by the lady author which names the painter Sickert as the Ripper, is not highly regarded. And some think it's rubbish. Be that as it may (and i do not have any particular opinions on it), what is the meaning of Sickert's painting, the one entitled something like "Jack the Ripper's Drawing Room", or something like that? It's very dark, murky and shows an entranceway or a large floor length window. Why was he so concerned, nay, obsessed with the killings? What possible relevance could they have had to his life, which was pretty comfortable after being "officially" approved of by the higher class in England?

You might ask yourself "What makes Patricia Cornwell so obsessed with murder?". Does her interest in murder make her a murderer? No. Of course not.

Sickert was concerned with many aspects of urban life. He was particularly taken, as were several of his contemporaries, with low culture, vulgarity and the underbelly of Victorian slums.

He was not, I would argue 'obsessed' with the JtR murders but he was certainly interested. It was an exploration of the macabre - a natural retreat for artists of the time and subsequently.

[robhouse]

As an artist myself, I find Cornwell's book somewhat offensive since it smears the reputation of a man who was an excellent painter. I mean, Sickert was not the greatest painter of all time, but his paintings are rather nice, well done etc. He was a student of Whistler, and seems to have been drawn to painting atmospheres that are generally somber and lonely in mood. There is a suggestion of danger in his works, also a sense of loneliness and despair. He seems to have been drawn to a dark side of life, and would have naturally been interested in subjects like murder. In short, I think he had somewhat "gothic" aesthetic sensibilities. The story about living in Jack the Ripper's bedroom seems to have interested (amused) him... it was probably an anecdote he told at parties.

Rob House

[ghoulstonstreet]

OK, But What Does It Mean?

As an artist myself, I find Cornwell's book somewhat offensive since it smears the reputation of a man who was an excellent painter. I mean, Sickert was not the greatest painter of all time, but his paintings are rather nice, well done etc. He was a student of Whistler, and seems to have been drawn to painting atmospheres that are generally somber and lonely in mood. There is a suggestion of danger in his works, also a sense of loneliness and despair. He seems to have been drawn to a dark side of life, and would have naturally been interested in subjects like murder. In short, I think he had somewhat "gothic" aesthetic sensibilities. The story about living in Jack the Ripper's bedroom seems to have interested (amused) him... it was probably an anecdote he told at parties.

Rob House

Well, I'm a painter too, in fact. And I admit that there are some creative types who are not screwed on too tight. I'm okay, you're okay and maybe Walter Sickert was okay. I like his paintings a lot. But they tell me that he is a very mysterious man, a complex man and a man who was hard to know. I don't really know what he said about the Ripper or what he said at parties. But I find it disturbing that he apparently thought he lived in the Ripper's house and that he painted that painting with the weird Ripper title. I do feel it begs to be explained, whether Sickert was personally involved or not.

[Limehouse]

The story goes that the painting to which you refer had a different title until the landlady of the room he painted told him she believed a previous occupant was Jack the Ripper. He then re-named the painting.

[c.d.]

I was in the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C. last week. There was a woman there who was attempting to copy a Rembrandt that was hanging on the wall. As I walked past, I took a quick look and thought just how really good a job she had done. As I was leaving, I took another really long look this time going back and forth between the Rembrandt and her copy. She had done an excellent job but then I started to notice subtle differences in colors, light and details. It was quite clear why Rembrandt is considered a master.

I read "The Man Who Painted Vermeers." A true story of a master forger and an inside look into the dark side of the art world. Very interesting.

c.d.

[JTRSickert]

I just want to point out that I find Walter Sickert to be a fascinating character in this whole Ripper drama. The reason is because, out of all the suspects, he seems to be the one that keeps on "evolving," ;if you get my meaning. To further demonstrate, he goes from:

1. Being an individual interested in the case: Sickert said he stayed in a lodging house where the landlady said JTR occupied the room, which led him to paint the so-called "Jack the Ripper's Bedroom" painting; he would dress up liek JTR on certain days; his artwork may have been inspired by some of the victim charaterizations in the media; and, he may (and this is a big
"may") have written a few of the hoax Ripper letters.

2. Informant-Joseph Gorman says that Walter Sickert told him the tale of knowing the true story of the murders;says the 3rd accomplice was Robert Anderson.

3. Accomplice-Stephen Knight said it was, in fact, Sickert who was the third accomplice.

4. JTR himself-See Jean Overton Fuller and Patricia Cornwell

So, even though I don't believe Sickert was JTR, there can be no denying he has had a long history to this case and his status keeps on changing. Maybe next, he'll evolove to trying to be a hero, an amateur detective trying to catch the Ripper. Who knows?

[Celesta]

I want to point out, and there's a thread on here that does this, too, that Sickert was not the only person to be fascinated with the murders. Others, among his contemporaries, were as well.

[Celesta]

C. D., When I was in Art school, they used to send us to the museum to copy the old masters, a classic training technique. It's a good learning method.

We won't go into the 80 birds drawings in a week, or 40 continuous line drawings, or the other things they put us through... Maybe that was why I changed my major.

[perrymason]

I want to point out, and there's a thread on here that does this, too, that Sickert was not the only person to be fascinated with the murders. Others, among his contemporaries, were as well.

One of the more notable ones was George Bernard Shaw Celeste, so youre quite right to point that out.

I think anyone who had time to ponder these murders in their West End homes, or from France....meaning the aristocrats and well heeled members of society,.... would have been amiss and socially backward to have not kept up on this Ripper topic that was Im sure the talk of all the more fashionable parties of the period.

Between a man that was hideous on the outside and a man who was quite obviously hideous on the inside, they had lots to talk about that Fall.

Cheers Celeste

[c.d.]

Hi Celesta,

Since you have an arts background, you might really like "The Man Who Painted Vermeers." Not only was the guy an incredible forger, he also had the cojones to sell a forgery to Hermann Goering for a very great deal of money.

c.d.

[Celesta]

Between a man that was hideous on the outside and a man who was quite obviously hideous on the inside, they had lots to talk about that Fall.

Cheers Celeste

Well said, Mike. Thanks. Cheers to you also.

[Celesta]

Hi Celesta,

Since you have an arts background, you might really like "The Man Who Painted Vermeers." Not only was the guy an incredible forger, he also had the cojones to sell a forgery to Hermann Goering for a very great deal of money.

c.d.

I should have mentioned, it. That sounds very interesting, C.D. I'm going to see if I find a copy on a discount bookseller I know of. Thanks for posting it. It sounds familiar. I eventually changed my major from art, for a number of reasons, to a science major, but art is a major love of mine.

Cel

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Sickert was probably the Victorian equivolent of a Ripperologist. Nothing more.