Mary Jane Kelly was Jack?

[pr1mate]

So I watched the history channel show and there were a couple things that made me think hmm. First they said DNA from one of the ripper letters was female. Also, the writing analysis said that the person wrote as if they were from Ireland.

Mary Jane Kelly obviously a woman. She also spoke frequently about how much she wants to go back home to Ireland. The body said to be hers was mutilated beyond recognition so there is no way to say 100% it was her. It was reported by 2 independent witnesses that they saw her the day after her murder wearing clothes that are not hers. People spoke of her as a sober living woman but that night she was seen all over town making a spectacle of herself singing loudly.

So she kills the others for one reason or another. Finds someone that looks similar to her. Butchers her up to where she can't be recognized as a stand in and heads off to Iireland dead and clear.

[babybird67]

hi pr1mate

welcome to Casebook.

i'd have to ask, was the body 'beyond recognition'? The remains were identified as Mary by as many as six different witnesses i believe.

Of course you are entitled to speculate, but i think the idea that Mary was not in that room, and was part of some elaborate plot to substitute a ringer for herself and escape somewhere else for whatever reason, is part of the mythological romanticising of Mary myself.

Enjoy the site!

[c.d.]

Seems to me that it might have been a whole lot easier for her to simply go back to Ireland rather than having to resort to murdering other women and removing their organs. Maybe she didn't think of that.

c.d.

[pr1mate]

I wasn't saying she murdered the woman to go to Ireland. No idea why she killed the others but the last one was for her to make a clean getaway.

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Pr1mate.

Apart from the objections raised by Jen and CD, Mary Jane was not, as you have been led to believe, of sober habits. Her landlord had often seen her the worse for wear, and regulars at the Britannia described her as a drunken brawler. As for the witnesses who sighted her on Dorset Street at seemingly impossible times, we are almost certainly dealing with cases of mistaken identity. One of these witnesses described 'Kelly' as having been afflicted with a speech impediment, and both described her as having been short and plump - attributes that simply do not accord with what little has been established regarding Kelly.

Anyway, welcome to the Casebook site and please don't be discouraged.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[pr1mate]

No worries about being dicouraged. I am not really all that into the jack the ripper case. I watched a show on tv read some stuff on this site and in about 15mins I put my conspiracy theory together. Unfortunantly, I don't think anyone will ever know 100% who the ripper was. But it is fun to read all the ideas people put out there. I have been reading through some of the other posts and I could see how the case could be made for almost anyone.

What was she making a clean break from? From killing the other girls. Before anyone asks I have no idea why she would want to kill the other girls. I do not know enough about the background info to con-coked an opinion on that.

Maybe she mutilated herself? Don't think it is possible to do that much damage to ones self.

For this to be a solid theory it would take someone doing a lot of research and filling all the holes but, like I said, at a quick glance this is the thought that came to my mind.

[Limehouse]

Hello Pr!mate, and welcome,

Hmm. I can see quite a lot of problems with this theory.

Firstly, I have never heard of any female DNA being linked to a ripper letter but even if it was, how many people do you think handled that letter in the years since it was written?

Secondly, Mary was not the only Irish person living in London. Parts of the east end were jam-packed with Irish (many of them men working at the docks) so even if an Irish dialect could be detected in one of the letters (and there is a suggestion that the Irish dialect was fakes by the way) there are many people it could have originated from.

Thirdly, there is no firm evidence that the letter was even written by the murderer, Irish or not.

Additionally, witness statements testify to women being seen with men, close to the time of their murder, not a woman. For example, Annie Chapman was seen talking to a man outside the entrance to no 29 Hanbury Street not too long before she was found dead. Furthermore, Mary Kelly could surely have been witnessed in other locations at the time of the murders.

Finally, I feel strongly that the killer was a male, expressing both anger and sexual excitement towards the act of slashing and stabbing at a freshly murdered female body, enjoying, as his skill and nerve increased, the expereince of wallowing and rummaging around inside the abdominal cavity.

As for Mary causing the mutilations to herself - well, it is likely that she was dead very soon after her throat was slashed and even if she was not, she was in no condition to cut off her own breasts, destroy her own face, carve pieces out of her own arms and legs and cut out her own heart.

[babybird67]

for Limehouse

cogent points articulately expressed.

[Uncle Jack]

I can only say one thing - There is more chance of Jordan being Jack the Ripper..............

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys.
I wrote up a very long theory back in the early 1970s, and sent it to the News Of the world, it concerned a idea of mine. that Joe Barnett was Jtr, and Mary assisted him, she would act as lookout , and he butchered the women.
Eddowes was killed because she suspected the duo, and they ceased operations in october, it was then decided that her death would be faked, which what happened on the 9th November.
My story concluded that kelly changed her identity and moved away , and Barnett falsely identified the body in room 13 as her, and after a short time met up again with his partner in crime , and nothing was heard of them since.
I believed that my interpretation was a work of art, but I received a rejection......I wonder why?.
Proberly because it was rather silly.
Regards Richard.
PS. However a major coincedence occured a few months later, as Colin Wilson informed me [ we were in contact at that time] that 'Great minds obviously think alike' as a new publication called 'The Michelmas Girls had just been published with a strong resemblence to my theory.
Still I am a good sport.....

[lynn cates]

motive

Hello Richard. Did either you or the chap with the other theory assign a motive to Joe and Mary? I take it it was not financial?

The best.
LC

[Fredo]

Is the measure of the likely guilt of a suspect how many presumptions and leaps of faith you have to make in order to conclude that the suspect was guilty? I appreciate there is little hard evidence against any of the mainstream suspects, but to make any case against Mary Jane Kelly must be a step too far. I can't recall seeing many reports of women serial killers killing women.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Guys,
My Story did not involve a reason why , it was rather tongue in cheek, just a fictional story one could say.
Regards Richard..

[perrymason]

I personally believe that a better case can be made for a Dr Stanley type.....since we are putting forth ideas without evidenciary merit.

If Mary is the woman on the bed in room 13, which by all accounts seems to be the case,.....and if Mary was Jack, then thats one very determined suicide.

Best regards

[Livia]

There was a similar scenario used by Colin Dexter in the Inspector Morse episode entitled, "The Wench is Dead".

A woman hires passage on a barge, leaves the boat and meets up with her husband who has strangled a woman of a similar build to his wife. Her body is thrown in the canal and both conspirators disappear. The body is found, an inquest is held, the husband identifies the body as his wife, suspects are arrested and "justice" is seemingly served.

Meanwhile, the husband makes a claim against his wife's insurance, then disappears. The crime is undetected until Inspector Morse takes an interest in the case.

One of my favorite Morse episodes, because of the Victorian setting.