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  • Robert Mann, attendant to attacker?

    Robert Mann, according to Mei Trow, historian, is the latest documentary offering as a JTR suspect for our small screens.
    The recently announced Discovery channel programme, clips of which are available on the web, reveals a new suspect... One whom the programme claims researchers have somehow missed over the years of trawling through archive after archive. The mortuary attendant, "a sufferer of fits" whose testimony is "unreliable" according to Coroner Wynne Baxter, after instructing the jurers pf the Nichols inquest to disregard Mann's testimony, apparently fits the "type" of person that could have comitted these crimes.
    This discrepancy regarding Mann's instructions as to what to do, or not, was raised in connection with James Hatfield, a witness at the Nichols inquest, who assisted Mann in stripping the body ready for laying out. It seems, to cut aq long story short, that Wynne Baxter was far happier with Hatfield's testimony than Mann's, even though Hatfield, in balancing the "weaknesses" of the two mortuary attendants, said that Gatfield had already admitted to having a poor memory.... yet better than having fits and being unreliable when giving testimony at an inquest it seems.
    The documentary also claims that Martha Tabram was certainly Mann's first victim.
    As to conclusions, proof etc etc, the researchers amongst us will no doubt either prove or disprove this new theory in a very short time, within days of all having seen the programme. Am uncertain here, but I believe it is to be screened on Nov 7th.

    As for me, I am left with two very strong feelings.
    1) I have the feeling that here we have the never ending "trying to fit the theoiry to the fact" situation, without significant solid proof.
    2) The weight leaning on the fact that according to Trow, all the "experts" have missed this suspect, tastes, I am sorry to say, as if anyone could flick through the pages of the "A-Z", and pick a name not yet investigated. Almost challenge like, in fact.
    One might as well point the finger at George Morris.
    If that sounds rude, I apologise, but let's be honest here... we ALL would love to FINALLY put the definitive name to JTR, and find out all the reasons, all the background the Modus Operandi... we all want to get this sorted once and for all with certainty.
    I really WOULD like to see the solution totally revealed and all other theories quashed once and for all...and should it be that Mann is proven with evidence to have actually been there, done it and bought the t-shirt, I will bow greatly in deep debt of honour to Mr. Trow, of whom, I may add, I respect. but Robert Mann?...hmmmm seems to me to be a case of.. we haven't looked into this one, what can we fit into HIS profile? Or does his profile fit? Perhaps I have become TOO cynical, after all these years.

    Enjoy and ponder once more Ladies and Gentlemen. The game is afoot!
    Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


    Justice for the 96 = achieved
    Accountability? ....

  • #2
    attendant

    Hello Phil. I wonder whether mortuary attendants and physician's assistants have really been overlooked through the years? I remember the old Baker and Berman "Jack the Ripper" film where the mortuary attendant/physician's assistant was mistaken for Jack. Of course, the poor devil was mute and not a little eccentric. The mob nearly did him in before he was "rescued."

    Also, as I recall, there was some question about a mortician's instrument being a possible murder weapon. (This question was put forward at one of the inquests, I believe.)

    The best.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Lynn,

      Hmmm.
      When I first saw the accusation against Mann, I thought exactly the same thing.

      I must say, on the positive side, that if a murderer WAS in that occupation, my God it's a perfect backdrop for "learning" the art of taking body parts from a body, if the mortuary attendant or assistant had been in the job many years....and a damned good way of repelling any "constant need", psychologocally, I presume! (Though here I would need the advice and comment of someone expert in the field of mental imbalance and violent urges!)

      There ARE people within and surrounding this whole story that provoke interest from my side.. the small people, the "nobodys"...morticians attendants included. There are gaps I have been trying to fill, not anything to do with Mann at the moment..(someone no doubt is already working on him, his background etc..., ) but the background people.

      You see, I am trying to think "outside the box"... And one of the things I think of is WHO is in the crowd, at each place, as illustrated in the Police News Illustrated. Am I being completely daft as to think that the murderer would mix himself in so as to be even less suspected? You see I just cant get it out of my head... the old Police comment, used today..
      "Someone must know something".. if nobody knew anything, it is very very rare..

      I have been trying to track down Joseph Lave, witness at the Stride murder. "A (Russian) man recently arrived from America"...
      I checked the census records for Joseph Lave all the way to 1901.. and cant find anyone to fit the name. Lave is NOT a Russian name. That is for certain.
      I really would like to know if a newspaper somewhere holds a description of this man.
      I don't believe it was Tumbelty at all...but it's the coincidence..it just doesn't feel right.

      Some things just don't fit. The "i"'s aren't dotted...and it bugs me. That's is why yes, in answering your question, the smaller man such as mortuary attendants SHOULD be looked into more... and the current lull in JTR studies gives us all the chance to try and fill some gaps.

      best wishes

      Phil
      Last edited by Phil Carter; 11-03-2009, 10:02 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
      Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


      Justice for the 96 = achieved
      Accountability? ....

      Comment


      • #4
        occupational hazard

        Hello Phil. Mr. Trow may well have the right occupation; but, the wrong chap.

        The police at that time were not dummies. They gravitated towards certain occupations. For example, all slaughtermen were large on the radar. And look at the questions. "Did he look like a dock worker?" (That means that their suspicions moved in a direction similar to Mr. Mariott's conjecture.)

        Well, let's keep plugging away, shall we?

        The best.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          indeed!

          Hello Lynn,
          Dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"'s will be on my gravestone!

          Cattle workers, railway police, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers..

          Re the knife...wasn't a broken knife sent to or kept by the Police Meseum years and years ago?.. Im getting old...can't remember.. something in Farson's book about that I believe..

          best wishes

          Phil
          Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


          Justice for the 96 = achieved
          Accountability? ....

          Comment


          • #6
            knife

            Hello Phil. Yes, there was one such implement found. However, its provenance was established as POST 1888.This is not to be confused with Coram's knife, which, again, is widely discounted as Jack's preferred instrument.)

            The best.
            LC

            Comment


            • #7
              knife

              Thanks Lynn..old age creeping in... details and more details..lol

              best wishes

              Phil
              Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


              Justice for the 96 = achieved
              Accountability? ....

              Comment

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