Robert Mann - A 'New' Suspect

[Chris]

Why is it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on here?

Well, I think it does make things difficult when someone appears on a discussion board and says - in essence - "you shouldn't be discussing this".

[Radical Joe]

To answer the points you raise in order. I did point out that this was a 'bitching' thread for me and I am going through one of my disillusionment phases at the moment. And having been interested in the case since 1961 I have seen many changes, especially with the appearance of the Internet. It is, however, refreshing to see your genuine interest based on valid grounds.

I can list a good many names that appear in the 1888 historical record that I would regard as a 'half-cocked theory' if anyone suggested they were 'Jack the Ripper' - and Mann is one of them. I shall be very interested to hear, as you have a genuine interest, what you think of the TV documentary when you have seen it.

I should think that the last thing on Mei Trow's mind when he wrote this book was that he was doing it to encourage others to research his theory in order to dismiss it.

(Ok, this is my last post on here!)

Hi,

Firstly, I apologise for the 'silly debate' remark. It was meant somewhat tongue in cheek to emphasise my analogy (as is hopefully evident by the fact that I have contributed qute a few posts on this topic over various threads). That said, as the OP of the debate, I apologise if you were put out at all by that remark.

And it's good to hear you acknowledge that you're going through a 'disillusionment' phase, just as I'm coming out of mine. Who knows, another place, another time, and we might have been arguing on opposite sides of he fence!

As noted above, I do appreciate your cynicism, I share it both in respect of this case (all things JTR) and in other respects - I am currently taking an MA in British Medieval History, and have read more than enough half-baked and deliberatley sensationalist theories to turn me off the subject for life.

A year ago I would likely have taken the same view as you regarding this theory (without, of course, the expertise to back it up). Perhaps, in a years time, I'll be laughing at the idea that I ever considered waiting for this programme to air. But, right now I feel refreshed and await the programme with anticipation. You can't deny a guy the right to get exicted (however misguided he may be), can you?!

[Roy Corduroy]

I just knew I should have avoided this and the other forum site recently, having heard there was a book and TV show coming, because I was looking forward to Trow's book. Just sitting down, reading it, seeing how it unfolds. Enjoying the pleasure of a new book, whether it be this subject or whatever. But the cat is out of the bag.

I read Trow's previous book and liked it. He was also on the US TV show with Phil, Don and others. It was a good show.

One more thing. How many posters and article writers and serious researchers chant the mantra of the poor local man? Well, here you are.

But now the horse has left the barn. And the bloom is off the rose. And Hi-ho the merry-o, cause that's just how it goes.

Roy

[ChrisGeorge]

I just knew I should have avoided this and the other forum site recently, having heard there was a book and TV show coming, because I was looking forward to Trow's book. Just sitting down, reading it, seeing how it unfolds. Enjoying the pleasure of a new book, whether it be this subject or whatever. But the cat is out of the bag.

I read Trow's previous book and liked it. He was also on the US TV show with Phil, Don and others. It was a good show.

One more thing. How many posters and article writers and serious researchers chant the mantra of the poor local man? Well, here you are.

But now the horse has left the barn. And the bloom is off the rose. And Hi-ho the merry-o, cause that's just how it goes.

Roy

Hello Roy

Well, looking at the situation in regard to the book objectively, the book will rise or fall on its own arguments not on what anyone says on these internet boards. There is bound to be some carping and resistance to any new suspect and an expectancy that the writer will not have made his or her case. As Stewart says, we have been down this road before in regard to suspect after suspect.... great expectations hyped by publisher or television media but, in the end, no real movement toward answering the riddle of the murders.

I should think, as Stewart remarked, it might be expected that Mr. Trow will have make some fresh contributions to the study of the murders, but whether his case for Robert Mann is persuasive that Mann was the killer is another thing entirely.

I anticipate that it will turn out to be an interesting book about a minor suspect, much like Bruce Paley's Jack the Ripper: The Simple Truth about Joe Barnett or Bob Hinton's From Hell: The Jack the Ripper Mystery about George Hutchinson.

Many such suspect books depend upon whether the reader will accept the author's argument, but usually such theories also hinge on acceptance of a number of leaps of faith, big and small.

Best regards

Chris George

[Chris]

There is bound to be some carping and resistance to any new suspect ...

Alternatively, it might be viewed as a prudently sceptical response to the suggestion that a long-term workhouse inmate in his 50s was the Whitechapel murderer.

[ChrisGeorge]

Alternatively, it might be viewed as a prudently sceptical response to the suggestion that a long-term workhouse inmate in his 50s was the Whitechapel murderer.

Agreed.

C

[The Grave Maurice]

Several previews of the programme can be seen here.

[chrisjd]

In that preview, is Trow really saying that the Wentworth Str. Arch is "all that's left of George Yard builings?"
If so: Ouch

C

[The Grave Maurice]

Yep, that's what I understood him to say. He also says that Martha's soldier companion stabbed her once with his bayonet, then Mann came along shortly afterward and stabbed her 38 times with his pocket knife.

[lynn cates]

ante mortem

Hello Maurice. I was given to understand that the consensus is all 38 of Martha's smaller wounds were administered ante mortem.

Cheers.
LC

[The Grave Maurice]

I believe that's what Trow is saying. The bayonet killed her, and then Mann stabbed the body.

[Howard Brown]

Its funny...and I mention the following with nothing but respect for Mr. Trow....but he appears to be among or in fact is, the first Ripper author who wrote a Ripper book and who stated that he "personally believed that we will never know who JTR was " ( Page 175 of his 1997 work, The Many Faces of Jack The Ripper, Summerdale).......and then, wrote a book/appeared in a suspect oriented documentary espousing the candidacy of a particular individual. I know Mr. Harris used to be down on D'Onston back in the day..but he didn't write a Ripper book before coming out promoting a candidate.

Its an unique situation...in that its been the rule with no exception...that Ripper authors don't write books promoting suspects after stating his identity would remain unresolved forever.

[Monty]

How,

Unless MJ has come across new and daming evidence since 97.

Monty

[lynn cates]

relief

Hello Howard. In a funny sort of way, I am relieved by your message. If this chap is a bit of a ripperologist, at least he understands some of the intricacies of the case. I feared he was some hotshot virgin with some new old ideas.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

I will be waiting with baited breath so see what motive Mr Trow puts forward for Mann.

Has anyone done any research into that specific workhouse to see what sort of regime it was and what were the rules.