mann

He wasnt an occupant of the workhouse in the sense that he was an inmate, his job as a morturay attendent meant he was part of the workhouse staff. Hence he was free to come and go as he pleased, ...

Male labourers that laboured outside the workhouse were free to come and go, ...

Initially, he was "free to come and go" because he was "part of the workhouse staff".

Now, he was "free to come and go" because of his (self-proclaimed) status as a "labourer", in the eyes of various census enumerators.

Which was it?

Again, …

Male labourers that laboured outside the workhouse were free to come and go, ...

Perhaps you would care to name the source, from which you gathered this misinformation!

Dock workers who were work house residents for example did not have to be in bed by 9m, most jobs in the eastend of london especially for the poor took place well into the night and started very early in the morning.

This is eerily reminiscent of the attempts of a certain poster to con us all into believing that the Victoria Home for Working Men, Commercial Street, Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel, kept its doors open throughout the night.

Perhaps you do not know the difference between a charitable institution (i.e. the Victoria Home) and a regulated Poor Law facility (i.e. the Whitechapel Union Infirmary), for which the local rate-payers were forced to bear the burden.

Using his residency of a work house is a poor reason to discount him as a suspect.

It is the very reason that he should be seen as being an outright non-starter!

Mann's status as a long term inmate of the workhouse is well documented. As such, he would not have been able to leave the workhouse without permission. Judging from some of the posts here, this difficulty was not even mentioned in the documentary. If that is correct, it is absolutely amazing.

"Judging from some of the posts here, this difficulty was not even mentioned in the documentary. If that is correct, it is absolutely amazing."

Amazing, and indeed pathetic!

[Jangling Jack]

Also the Lusk letter being attributed to Mann..and yet there was also a segment that showed a possible signature of Mann on a mortuary report of some sort and the writing was completely different i.e. a hell of a lot more neat than the blots of the Lusk letter.

[dixon9]

it was not mentioned chris,in fact it gave the impressiong RM could just go out an about whenever he wanted(show him in the pub alot)lol

[Chris]

He wasnt an occupant of the workhouse in the sense that he was an inmate, his job as a morturay attendent meant he was part of the workhouse staff.

This is just plain wrong. You have only to look at the reports of the inquest:
Robert Mann, the keeper of the mortuary, said the police came to the workhouse, of which he was an inmate.

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_nichols.html

Mann's status as a long term inmate of the workhouse is well documented. As such, he would not have been able to leave the workhouse without permission. Judging from some of the posts here, this difficulty was not even mentioned in the documentary. If that is correct, it is absolutely amazing.

[Trevor Marriott]

Would you care to expand on who you beleive were the "other" victims ?

[Doppelganger]

He kill more then the 5 known women you don`t go from 0 to the type of murder his first was you work your way up to it now they may not have been Tabram & Mackenzie but there are other victims.

[Trevor Marriott]

A feeble suggestion by Trow suggesting Mann was suffering from TB in 1889 hence the mild attack on Mckenzie. If he had Tb in 1889 he would have died long before 1896

Trow himself does not put a motive forward simply allows the professor to do that which could be right or on the other hand horribly wrong.

Likewise he does not put froward an explanation for the "removal of the organs"

The programmes showed Mann being able to write in a reasonable fashion and being out drinking. The man was a pauper probabaly didnt have a pot to piss in let alone going out on the town drinking and not being in a position to show money to prostitutes to get them to go to dark secluded spots.

Many major and important issues not covered or deliberatly left out

i said in a previous post as far as the documentary is concerned i dont blame Trow obviously he isnt going to turn down a financial offer but the blame must be with the Discover channel and whoever commisioned it there. They obvioulsy didnt research the Ripper mystery very well.

[dixon9]

If Robert Mann had 'special previleges' being able to come and go as he pleased(which tbh i doubt) would he also have been free to wear his own clothes and not the workhouse uniforms,which would surely dont tally up to eye witness accounts of what 'jack' was wearing.Also the age is a big negative in the RM theory.
I just cant have him as a legitimate suspect,but must say i enjoyed the prog.

dixon9
still learning

[scarletpimpernel]

....but having just listened to Trevor Marriotts podcast, does anyone think there is a connection between his organ removal idea and Mei's naming of Mann?

Monty

Hi Monty:

According to the programme last night, a mortuary assistant had the means to preserve a kidney in a certain condition and all he needed was right there, at his fingertips at his place of work.

A mortuary assistant standing behind a doctor's shoulder might have had the experience in cutting organs too. The mortuary, was separate from where he lived but both places were very close by as was the radious of where all the victims were killed, ending in his particular morgue slab. Interesting !

[scarletpimpernel]

He wasnt an occupant of the workhouse in the sense that he was an inmate, his job as a morturay attendent meant he was part of the workhouse staff. Hence he was free to come and go as he pleased, as for his age, does anyone seriously think the very public killing spree of 1888 was JtR's begining? It seems more like a frenzied end to a long build up of attacks and murders to me.

he could of been active for many years before at a far lesser degree, there are many reasons that he might of become more public and less carefull in his killings. He may of been getting older and he may also of been physically sick, knowing he was unwell he may of thrown caution to the wind...

Versa,

Interestingly, that is exactly what Meir Trow is saying and offers as the ripper's first victim Martha Tabran and his last victim Alice Mackenzie ends up in his slab as well, he explains that as the wounds are not as horrific as the previous ones he is saying that this is because by that time, Robert Mann was seriously ill with tuberculosis, a debilitating illness which affects the nervous system, the bones, difficulty in breathing etc and he simply didn't have the energy nor the time to finish her off with the mutilations of the previous victims.

[Versa]

:-) hi thanks for the welome :-) i joined ages ago but felt a bit overwhelmed and ran away lol

[The Grave Maurice]

Hello Versa,

Don't take SB's comments too seriously. Lately, he's become very intense. Pressures of work, no doubt. Anyway, nice to have you with us. (I like your profile picture.)

[Versa]

Chronology:


The fact that Robert Mann is listed as a resident "Pauper" of the Whitechapel Union Infirmary, rather than the Whitechapel Union Workhouse, may be indicative of an ongoing fulfillment of an infirmary-based responsibility, such as 'Mortuary Attendant'.


1891:

Census of England & Wales

Registration District: Whitechapel
Civil Parish: Hamlet of Mile End New Town
Registration Sub-District: Mile End New Town
Enumeration District: "Baker's Row Infirmary (Whitechapel Union)", i.e. Whitechapel Union Infirmary, Baker's Row, Hamlet of Mile End New Town
Page: 8

"Robert Mann"
"Pauper Inmate"
"56"
"General Laborer"
"London, M E N Town", i.e. Hamlet of Mile End New Town, County of London

Again; the fact that Robert Mann is listed as a resident "Pauper" of the Whitechapel Union Infirmary, rather than the Whitechapel Union Workhouse, may be indicative of an ongoing fulfillment of an infirmary-based responsibility, such as 'Mortuary Attendant'.

Male labourers that laboured outside the workhouse were free to come and go, using his listing as a workhouse resident is a poor reason for discounting him as a suspect. Dock workers who were work house residents for example did not have to be in bed by 9m, most jobs in the eastend of london especially for the poor took place well into the night and started very early in the morning. Using his residency of a work house is a poor reason to discount him as a suspect.

[Versa]

Nonsense!

ummmm not at all but thanks for a very informative answer

He wasnt an occupant of the workhouse in the sense that he was an inmate, his job as a morturay attendent meant he was part of the workhouse staff. Hence he was free to come and go as he pleased, ...

Nonsense!