Jack The Rippers Real Name? Anyone Know Or Have Any Idea?

[Stewart P Evans]

Unfortunately

Hello Mr. Evans. Regarding the remark about (f) and the Victorian male population, perhaps Aaron, as a hairdresser, could have styled the red hairs in the gentlemen's palms (couldn't resist).
I deeply appreciate your remarks about the Mitre square exit. Perhaps we vanishing Druittists have a glimmer of hope, after all.
One facet of ripperology which seems underdiscussed is the matter of escape routes (better: possible escape routes) from the scenes. It gets barely touched on in the various books, but I'd like to see an entire chapter devoted to this issue.
All the best!
LC
PS, are you old enough to remember the Baker and Berman cinema with Jack crushed under the lift?

Lyn, unfortunately I have now passed the big 60 so yes, I do remember the movie, in fact I have it on DVD, Stewart.

[lynn cates]

escape

Hello Mr. Evans. Regarding the remark about (f) and the Victorian male population, perhaps Aaron, as a hairdresser, could have styled the red hairs in the gentlemen's palms (couldn't resist).

I deeply appreciate your remarks about the Mitre square exit. Perhaps we vanishing Druittists have a glimmer of hope, after all.

One facet of ripperology which seems underdiscussed is the matter of escape routes (better: possible escape routes) from the scenes. It gets barely touched on in the various books, but I'd like to see an entire chapter devoted to this issue.

All the best!
LC

PS, are you old enough to remember the Baker and Berman cinema with Jack crushed under the lift?

[Stewart P Evans]

Ripperology

Hello Mr. Evans. Thank you. These are the usual circumstances adduced for Kosminski's candidacy. I would have added (f) he was a known onanist which was thought to lead to (b). (heh heh)
I do not now, nor have I ever, considered Kosminski to be much more than a weak circumstantial case. I regard him as even less viable than Klosowski (Sugden's man--even though "not proven"). I was merely pointing out, with regards to a post by a Kosminskist, that many shared her opinion--including a panel who (presumably) followed the 1988 (or so) FBI profile. (Would that silly document had never been written.)
Ripperology has come a long way since I first became interested in the '70s. Back then, Dr. Cream was much touted. "After all," it was argued, "This fellow proclaimed 'I am Jack . . .' therefore, etc." We were all convinced, too, that the "Dear Boss" was genuine. Now? Well, progress has been made.
I, like Sir Melville, prefer Druitt. Of course, the critical impediment is a movement to the northeast (evidenced by the bloody piece of apron) after Mitre Square...
Best Rgds.
LC

If your proposed (f) was thought to lead to (b), which apparently it was, then most of the Victorian male population should have been thought to be insane.

There is no more than 'a weak circumstantial case' against any named suspect and, I have to admit, I have had both Druitt (as of 1965) and Kosminski (as of 1988) as my preferred suspect. I now try not to have a 'preferred suspect', but have to admit that, given all my human foibles, this is very difficult. You have to force yourself to be objective.

I quite agree with you re- 'the FBI profile' of Jack the Ripper, which is something I regard as a total nonsense. And I have discussed this at length with my good friend Bill Hagmaier who is a retired ex-chief of the Child Abduction and Serial Murder unit of the FBI.

Ripperology has come a long way, certainly since I first started following it in 1961 and I am aware of all the phases it has passed through, especially with regard to suspects - real or otherwise.

I was interested to see your comment about the murderer's known direction of travel after the Eddowes killing - stated as 'movement to the northeast'. This has always been touted as one of the few clues left by the murderer. But what is the true value of it? There were three exits from Mitre Square available to the murderer. They were -

1. Into Mitre Street.
2. St James Passage into St James PLace.
3. Church Passage into Duke Street.

I have always thought that his most likely route out of the Square would have been 3 on this list, St James Passage, the main reason being that he probably heard PC Watkins approaching in Mitre Street and had very recently heard PC Harvey walk to the bottom of Church Passage and back. That leaves 3 as the best option.

Having gained the open streets his escape would be subject to many unknown variables that we cannot hope to know about today. These would include -

1. Whether or not he heard, or saw, any others persons/police in any street ahead of him, thus causing him to adopt a different course.
2. The visibility in those streets, well lit or not, for you would think he would prefer darker streets at the early stage of his escape.
3. Any possible bolt-hole or hiding place in the area that he knew of and where he could compose himself.

So although his flight appeared to be towards the east and Whitechapel or Spitalfields this may not have had much significance as an indicator of where he lived or the actual course he may have wished to take.

[lynn cates]

circs

Hello Mr. Evans. Thank you. These are the usual circumstances adduced for Kosminski's candidacy. I would have added (f) he was a known onanist which was thought to lead to (b). (heh heh)

I do not now, nor have I ever, considered Kosminski to be much more than a weak circumstantial case. I regard him as even less viable than Klosowski (Sugden's man--even though "not proven"). I was merely pointing out, with regards to a post by a Kosminskist, that many shared her opinion--including a panel who (presumably) followed the 1988 (or so) FBI profile. (Would that silly document had never been written.)

Ripperology has come a long way since I first became interested in the '70s. Back then, Dr. Cream was much touted. "After all," it was argued, "This fellow proclaimed 'I am Jack . . .' therefore, etc." We were all convinced, too, that the "Dear Boss" was genuine. Now? Well, progress has been made.

I, like Sir Melville, prefer Druitt. Of course, the critical impediment is a movement to the northeast (evidenced by the bloody piece of apron) after Mitre Square.

Would that Sir Robert had articulated what he was thinking when he mused about blurting out his suspect's name. I sadly fear, however, that this would merely have amounted to more "circs.'

Best Rgds.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Totally agree !!!!!!!!!!

[Stewart P Evans]

Hearsay

Following on from Stewarts thread with regards to the circumstantial evidence
i dont recall anything to actually show he hated prostitutes or had homicidal tendencies, but I stand to be corrected.
Waving a knife at his sister in my book does not make him homicidal. Many domestic incident nowadays I am cover involve spouses waving knives at their partners in anger, that doesnt make them homicidal.
i would also like to touch on police procedures. As is known Mcnaghten was not involved in any of the Ripper murders. So when he was asked to give infomation about the overall Ripper investigation and "suspects" he would have no doubt instructed a subordinate to review the Ripper files and to compile a report containing the relevent information. I would suggest he would not have researched it himself.
From that report he could have prepared his own memo or perhaps just put his name to the report and called it his own.
(This practice is still carried out in modern day policing)

That is correct Trevor, we have no evidence whatsoever that Aaron Kosminski hated women and especially prostitutes nor that he had homicidal tendencies. And in the very place in which you would expect that to be recorded, the asylum records, these points are notable by their absence. It smacks of unconfirmed hearsay to me.

[Trevor Marriott]

Following on from Stewarts thread with regards to the circumstantial evidence
i dont recall anything to actually show he hated prostitutes or had homicidal tendencies, but I stand to be corrected.

Waving a knife at his sister in my book does not make him homicidal. Many domestic incident nowadays I am cover involve spouses waving knives at their partners in anger, that doesnt make them homicidal.

i would also like to touch on police procedures. As is known Mcnaghten was not involved in any of the Ripper murders. So when he was asked to give infomation about the overall Ripper investigation and "suspects" he would have no doubt instructed a subordinate to review the Ripper files and to compile a report containing the relevent information. I would suggest he would not have researched it himself.

From that report he could have prepared his own memo or perhaps just put his name to the report and called it his own.

(This practice is still carried out in modern day policing)

[Stewart P Evans]

'many circs'

...
I thought I had indicated special "circs" not "special circs." I did not recall the adjective so I supplied one. I think we all hope it was not merely the fact that Kosminski had a curious habit and an inadequate home life. If I recall, geography played a (minor?) role in his candidacy.
I suppose that he must still be regarded a prime suspect, given the investigators thought so and I respect their opinions. He does seem an ill fit to me, but I am unaware of those circs.
Cheers.
LC

We are all familiar with Macnaghten’s description of ‘Kosminski’ as one of the suspects cited by him as ‘more likely’ to have committed the series of murders than Cutbush. In his description of the cases of the three men he cites, ‘M. J. Druitt, said to be a doctor’; ‘Kosminski, a Polish Jew’; and ‘Michael Ostrog, a Russian doctor, and a convict’; he writes of ‘Kosminski’ ‘There were many circs connected with this man which made him a strong “suspect”.’

It has been said that we do not know what these ‘many circs’ were, that made him ‘a strong “suspect”.’ We must, then, carefully examine Macnaghten’s words in the context in which they appear. First the date, and the report is dated 23 February 1894. Secondly the three ‘suspects’ are offered, not as the murderer, but as men ‘more likely’, than Cutbush, to have committed the murders. Also it may be very relevant that Macnaghten places the word ‘suspect’ in speech marks. The ‘many circs’ are described as being the reason for Kosminski’s status as a ‘strong’ suspect. So they deserve serious consideration as they support Kosminski’s suspect status.

The term ‘circs’ is common police parlance for ‘circumstances’, being merely a shortening of the word. As the name implies here whatever these ‘circumstances’ were they were only circumstantial to the consideration of him as a suspect. They do not indicate the existence of any hard evidence which we do not know the nature of as witness Macnaghten’s preceding, and qualifying remark, “…no shadow of proof could be thrown on any one.”

They must also be viewed in light of the fact that Macnaghten later clearly indicated that he viewed M. J. Druitt as a stronger suspect, indeed Druitt was his own ‘preferred’ suspect, and not Kosminski. The fact that no first name is given for Kosminski should also be noted as being possibly relevant. However, I have to agree that as current knowledge stands, and in view of the facts given, Kosminski is most probably Aaron Kosminski.

Macnaghten wrote – “Kosminski, a Polish Jew, & resident in Whitechapel. This man became insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices [i.e. masturbation]. He had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies; he was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889. There were many circs connected with this man that made him a strong “suspect”.” And that is all we have in the report about this suspect. There are further important considerations.

The Aberconway version of Macnaghten’s report, almost certainly the earlier draft version, varies in that includes the statements that “He was (and I believe still is) detained in a lunatic asylum” and “This man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City P.C. near Mitre Square.”

The latter statement has been much discussed and analysed in the past with detailed speculation that a City PC did, indeed, see the suspect. I have, obviously, considered this carefully and it is my firm belief that this was a mistake by Macnaghten, that did not find its way into the final, official, version. We have to retain common sense and logic when looking at this and it is patently obvious that the surviving official records, both City and Met, clearly show that there was no PC witness. What there was, was a City Police witness, i.e. Lawende, whose description of the suspect he saw was widely circulated, and I think that was what Macnaghten confused.

So we now move to the ‘many circs’ that we are considering here. A careful reading, I think, shows that Macnaghten was referring collectively to all the circumstantial evidence surrounding Kosminski, in summary, that he had listed. That may be summed up as follows –

(a) He lived in the immediate vicinity (Whitechapel).
(b) He was insane.
(c) He hated women, especially prostitutes.
(d) He had ‘strong homicidal tendencies’.
(e) In appearance he strongly resembled the individual seen by Lawende at Church Passage.

I do not believe that Macnaghten would have had much more, if anything, than this and certainly if there had been anything of a stronger nature I am sure that he would have mentioned it. The identification later alleged by Anderson (in 1910) and Swanson (in the ‘marginalia’) would have taken place prior to Macnaghten penning this 1894 report, in 1890 or early 1891. Had it taken place as described then it is unthinkable that Macnaghten would not be aware of it. So (e) above might be a loose reference to the fact that ‘Kosminski’ had been ‘identified’ by the Mitre Square witness.

All of which, of course, does not make Kosminski a prime suspect nor, I would suggest, a strong suspect; merely a suspect. I am aware that many who espouse the 'Polish Jew theory' in one of its many forms may not agree with the foregoing, but it is, I believe, the most likely answer to the questions posed.

[lynn cates]

Kaminski

Hello Mike. I know what you mean. I just finished Fido's book and he makes a nasty little case for Kaminski. I can only hope that Spallek hurries and finds that bloody knife in the Thames.

Cheers.
LC

I think the most compelling feature about the Kosminsky theorizing is that to my knowledge he is the ONLY suspect who matches the Senior Police suggestions regarding his commitment.... and then a witness refused to identify him...or he was refused to be identified and then committed....depends on whom you refer to.

His ethnicity and his location during some of the murders seem to me to be the only real bits of "compelling evidence" for his candidacy, and there are other Kosminksi's around at that time....though none that fit the asylum story.

Since we have so many variations on a theme....Kosminksi, Klosowski, Kaminsky, ....and a police force that was perhaps awkward with some of these ethnic and European surnames due to the fact that they were often recited to them by people who spoke little or no English, perhaps some of the names for suspects are mislabeled slightly....adding to the overall confusion here....but perhaps explaining some conflicts when comparing various investigators remarks and suspect surnames.

Best regards all.

[Bob Hinton]

Precisely!

Hello Bob,

Her standards are probably those of her age group, which are very different from ours.
Cheers
Eduardo

Precisely, and those standards are abysmal. Standards are nowadays slipping down so fast I wonder where they are going to hit bottom. When my son was in junior school in the early eighties I was horrified to find out that at the age of 11 he still had not been taught cursive script, the class was still writing in pencil on lined paper in block capitals.

Checking back to my old school books I find I was writing with pen and ink (dipping pen) in cursive script and constructing essays at the age of 7!
Nowadays part of my job is to give talks in colleges and schools. I was horrified to find students studying for a degree turning in rubbish like this. No capitalization, no sentence structure and ultimately no sense. Yet these are the people who are going to be running the banks and the country in a couple of decades.
No wonder we have students joining Universities who are being given lessons in how to write, something they should have learnt in Junior school.
Because of these appalling standards their degrees are now worthless, and as for A levels – what a joke.
Do you realize you can get a grade A+ in a subject even after getting 75% of the paper wrong?
When I do lecture I do not let the students settle for sloppy, I insist that if I am giving my best then they should do no less. Do you know who appreciate that the most? The students. The teachers in the main are quite happy to settle for any old rubbish.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Mr. Evans. Thanks. I presume that was the programme. I did not watch it--I merely have it second or third hand. I think their reasoning had something to do with his fitting the FBI profile?

I thought I had indicated special "circs" not "special circs." I did not recall the adjective so I supplied one. I think we all hope it was not merely the fact that Kosminski had a curious habit and an inadequate home life. If I recall, geography played a (minor?) role in his candidacy.

I suppose that he must still be regarded a prime suspect, given the investigators thought so and I respect their opinions. He does seem an ill fit to me, but I am unaware of those circs.

Cheers.
LC

[Captain Hook]

Hello Bob,

I thought you were aware that my standards as regards the use of the English language are rather exacting, perhaps because I came by them the hard way. Yet I don't think it's necessary to ask too much from a newcomer whose first post this was and who hasn't had much of a chance to acquaint herself with this forum. To judge from her post, Lauren must be a young person growing up in the era of e-mails, texts and rap. Her standards are probably those of her age group, which are very different from ours. If she returns to this thread, and to this forum as a whole, we might wish to offer some guidance. If she was, as it appears, just a flash on the pan, or even less than that, we don't need to worry too much about her contaminating our standards.

Cheers
Eduardo

[Bob Hinton]

Agreed.


Bob - you missed an apostrophe in the word 'Lauren's' when your were criticising her punctuation.

PHILIP

Thank you for pointing that out. Punctuation has always been a bit of a bugbear with me. The difference between Lauren and me is that I try to get it right - she obviously cannot be bothered.

[Bob Hinton]

Acceptance of poor standards?

Hello everybody,

I don't think Lauren is coming back to this thread. It's a pity, because she wanted to find out about something and she thought she had come to the right place. Let's be kinder to the new additions to the Ripper family.

Cheers
Hook

What utter tosh! If Lauren wished to find out anything about JTR then she has the whole of the internet to assist her in her search, not to mention two excellent sites exclusively dedicated to JTR.
If she seriously wants to undertake research into the subject there are hundreds of people on this and other sites who would bend over backwards to help her. However she has to play her part, she has to do some of the work and part of that work is learning how to communicate effectively, which on this site means using the English language. If she cannot be bothered even to do that why should she expect everyone else to run around on her behalf?
If you want to play on someone else’s playing field then it is up to you as the guest ( albeit uninvited) to make the best possible effort, the sloppy, haphazard way that some people wander through life makes my blood boil – and then they expect everyone to treat them gently because they are new! For that very reason you should make an extra effort - not little or none!
Her dedication to her task can best be judged by the fact that she made one post and vanished!