Did Jack the Ripper even exist?

[Amber]

I agree desparately and dying women who knew their killer because he did work in a hospital and had a very influential father in medicine,maybe pathology.
He appears to of been experimenting on the murdered women.
The actual killings were quite swift and clean.
The letter sent by the killer to the pathologist Openshaw letter sounds like a young man seeking approvel by his elders.I think JTR had narsistic tendencies and the poor women were used as a means to an end.

[Amber]

I am interested to any brutal murders of women that took place in 1890 because on reading about several years i can not find any.
Please advise.

[Amber]

but other women were found murdered near Berner Street Lydia Heart,Francis Cole

[perrymason]

but other women were found murdered near Berner Street Lydia Heart,Francis Cole

Im not so sure about your theorizing the killer had medical training or a paternal link to medicine Amber,...but on the above, I believe its best to remember that not even the police thought all the murdered women in the East End were Jacks doing. That other attacks occurred simultaneously with the Ripper killings, or before or after the Ripper slayings, is a fact.

That Jack killed Liz Stride for example, is supposition.

Best regards

[Howard Brown]

I forget...was it Anderson who suggests locking up all the prostitutes at a certain hour for their own protection? I had a good chuckle at that one. Lock up the victims so the streets can be clear for the killer to roam and find some new victim category to abuse.-Perry Mason

Mike...that of course is presuming the Whitechapel Murderer would focus on any other "category" of women other than prosses or could find a number of women available at those times of night...I know you know that....but what we might want to consider is that there would be virtually no women on the streets during those hours, but prostitutes. Even though the list of victims were all prostitutes ( a benefit we have of knowing after the fact) at the time, all women would have been cognizant of the potential danger of walking unaccompanied then. And as it goes, the smart ones stayed indoors or those who continued to strut their stuff and didn't get murdered were the fortunate unfortunates.

[perrymason]

I forget...was it Anderson who suggests locking up all the prostitutes at a certain hour for their own protection? I had a good chuckle at that one. Lock up the victims so the streets can be clear for the killer to roam and find some new victim category to abuse.-Perry Mason

Mike...that of course is presuming the Whitechapel Murderer would focus on any other "category" of women other than prosses or could find a number of women available at those times of night...I know you know that....but what we might want to consider is that there would be virtually no women on the streets during those hours, but prostitutes. Even though the list of victims were all prostitutes ( a benefit we have of knowing after the fact) at the time, all women would have been cognizant of the potential danger of walking unaccompanied then. And as it goes, the smart ones stayed indoors or those who continued to strut their stuff and didn't get murdered were the fortunate unfortunates.

I realize that was a reach Howard. Had a few things been handled differently I know of at least 1 Canonical who may not have been....had the City been handling D & D cases the same way as Metro, Kate would have been in for the night.

Who knows what subtle changes might have been made to help the situation. My contention is that they should have had checkpoints at all major intersections that all foot and cart traffic had to pass through...plus more fixed position police at checkpoints throughout the area. Like a Marshall Law clampdown. They were granted the right to enter peoples dwellings and inspect their premises...if they could infringe upon the entire neighborhood in the own homes, locking down East End city streets after midnight should have been easy to grant as well.

Remember how Kidney claims that he could have caught the guy with a bunch of policeman at his disposal to place at locations he felt were germaine...he may have been a kook but I wonder if something like that might have worked.

One wonders if the slip that "only the PC near Mitre Square" saw the killer....and the story that goes with it of a stake out at a certain location....or the supposed stakeout on Batty Street were hints that they made attempts using that kind of pursuit.

All the best Howard.

[Supe]

It should be pointed out that the house-to-house searches were only undertaken with the explicit permission of each individual tenant. To do have done otherwise would have been quite illegal. That is something that Warren made clear to the Home Secretary when Matthews forwarded an MP's suggestion for just such an extra-legal endeavor to Warren.

As it is, a very good argument can be made that the ever-increasing police presence as well as the growing number of Vigilance Committee patrols may well have been the reason there were no Ripper murders in October and why he was driven inside in November.

Don.

[Howard Brown]

I realize that was a reach Howard. Had a few things been handled differently I know of at least 1 Canonical who may not have been....had the City been handling D & D cases the same way as Metro, Kate would have been in for the night.

Thats true.

Who knows what subtle changes might have been made to help the situation. My contention is that they should have had checkpoints at all major intersections that all foot and cart traffic had to pass through...plus more fixed position police at checkpoints throughout the area. Like a Marshall Law clampdown. They were granted the right to enter peoples dwellings and inspect their premises...if they could infringe upon the entire neighborhood in the own homes, locking down East End city streets after midnight should have been easy to grant as well.

Martial law might and might not have worked Mike. How to maintain it might be a problem too. It wouldn't have been implemented,in my view,until after September 8th, if at all. Even if they ( Met Police) did implement martial law after Chapman's murder...there was the 3 week passage of time between Annie's murder and the Double Event...where it would be natural for police and the people to lower their guard...just for the one night: Sept.29th...a rainy night too.. The first murder that night occurred on the other side of Commercial Road and of course, the 2nd in City police territory. We also might want to remember the story of Philadelphia journalist R.Harding Davis being told an interesting story by Inspector Moore where Moore had his men cordon off a section in the East End ( around an unspecified murder site) and that within a few minutes 50 people were found inside the "no go "zone. We also know that efforts to stifle prostitution today in 2009 is like eating soup with a fork even if a serial killer is at work in urban areas where one is at large.

Remember how Kidney claims that he could have caught the guy with a bunch of policeman at his disposal to place at locations he felt were germaine...he may have been a kook but I wonder if something like that might have worked.

He was probably less kook and more inebriated than anything else,Mike. I can understand how he could come up a proposal such as that. The police knew what they were dealing with,with Kidney,I think. A very upset individual who felt completely helpless in the face of the loss of his significant other.

One wonders if the slip that "only the PC near Mitre Square" saw the killer....and the story that goes with it of a stake out at a certain location....or the supposed stakeout on Batty Street were hints that they made attempts using that kind of pursuit.

...When Harry Cox and his City police comrades stalked the character in November after Kelly's murder, they should have also had the mystery witness along with them to verify if the stalked "suspect" was the man this mystery witness saw in the company with one of the victims. That little cat and mouse game could have been promising in terms of apprehension had the City police had access to and used the witness. It remains a tantalizing mystery within the mystery in any event.

Later Mike

HB