Did Jack the Ripper even exist?

[Jez]

Who was T.C. then?
Should we be looking for Top Cat?

[Cap'n Jack]

Thank you, Mark, a bit of common sense at last.
As regards the supposed link between the sale of ice cream and rape.
Ice cream sales stop in the winter, serial rapists and killers like Ted Budny rape and kill in the snow of Aspen. They don't have a season.
And I still do not see a serial killer in Whitechapel in 1888... unless you give him the Torso murders to boot.

[truebluedub]

I didn't say ice cream caused rape I just used an old parable about statistics. See July 13 at http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_07_07.shtml for another who has done this.
Quantitative data can only reflect the macro level, while the presence of a serial killer would be reflected at micro level data requiring qualitative data such as newspapers etc.

Chris Lowe

[Cap'n Jack]

'while the presence of a serial killer would be reflected at micro level data requiring qualitative data such as newspapers etc.'

Which is exactly what I did to obtain my figures for Whitechapel.
No Jack the Ripper in 1888 the figures figure.

[truebluedub]

qualitative = images, discourse, text, talk, narrative = micro level
quantitative = statistics = macro level
If you used the newspapers to generate statistics you are still using a quantitative method.

Chris Lowe

[Nothing to see]

I'll be honest. I'm too lazy to go back and check who started this thread.
Jack as a figment of everyone's imagination except Jacks. Separate, distinct murderers prowling around Whitechapel, murdering and mutilating the same victims, during the same season, at the same approximate time. With the same signature throttle/ throat slash? I'd think Jack would be insulted.

[DarkPassenger]

I can't believe the naivety in this thread.

We do have evidence of a serial killer active in the Whitechapel area in 1888 - five dead bodies and a media circus!

You're taking the idea too globally - saying there is little statistical evidence overall that a serial killer was active - but you're totally ignoring the fact that five women were murdered, and that everyone at the time was calling for the killer responsible to be caught! Are you saying that there is no evidence of a whole spree of killings which would have caused a spike in figures, such as the Suffolk Strangler murders? That's all I can think you mean. Well, in 1888, Whitechapel was a filthy, overcrowded, crime-ridden slum full of drunks, prostitutes and immigrants - there was a high violent crime and murder rate, so five murders over three or four months (and we're not even sure it was five, it could have been four) is not going to show up in regional statistics.

We know for a fact that five prostitutes were killed in Whitechapel between August 1888 and November 1888.
We know for a fact that they were killed in very similar ways - with a distinct MO and recognisable signature.
We know for a fact that no-one was officially charged with the murders.
We know for a fact that the thoughts of everyone at the time, as well as now, were that one man killed all five. I think this constitutes enough evidence to suppose that a serial killer was responsible for five murders.

[Roy Corduroy]

or was it just a bunch of pimp thugs who were trying to teach the working girls of whitechapel a lesson or two?

Hi Grim,

After the Annie Chapman murder on Sept 8, Police Commissioner Charles Warren told of one such clue:

"A Brothel Keeper who will not give her address or name writes to say that a man living in her house was seen with blood on him on morning of murder. She described his appearance & said where he might be seen - when the detectives came near him he bolted, got away & there is no clue as to the writer of the letter."

Roy

[Cap'n Jack]

We look at a small area of London, Whitechapel, or at least I do, and it is this particular area that concerns me.
When I catalogued the number of murderous attacks made on women in that small area in 1887, 1888 and 1889, I was somewhat surprised to note that the arrival of a serial killer in 1888 caused no visible increase in the number of such attacks, and that the number remained static throughout those years.
I equated this to the murder of prostitutes in Ipswich in 2006, and have postulated that the arrival of a serial killer in such a small community would certainly have increased the number of murderous attacks made on women for that year over the preceeding and following year.
I believe this postulation to be correct.
I also believe that in a relatively small community the arrival of a serial killer should and would increase the number of victims of such crimes in the year of his activities... but this didn't happen in Whitechapel in 1888.
I have as yet to reach a conclusion concerning this, but it may indicate that a serial killer was active in Whitechapel in 1887, 1888 and 1889.
Or that we are dealing with 'Jack the Myth'.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi DP,

We know for a fact that five prostitutes were killed in Whitechapel between August 1888 and November 1888.
We know for a fact that they were killed in very similar ways - with a distinct MO and recognisable signature.

Minor correction - in the interests of sticking to the facts, you understand...

At least one of those 5 murders wasn't conducted in a "very similar" way to the others, and the signature was nowhere near as unique as that seen among the remaining "canonical" victims. Throat cutting stands as a rather banal method of committing murder, and Stride's death was no different in that respect than any number of predecessors and successors who perished in a similar manner.

We know for a fact that the thoughts of everyone at the time, as well as now, were that one man killed all five.

That's neither strictly true, nor a rationale that I'd recommend

[Debra A]

We know for a fact that the thoughts of everyone at the time, as well as now, were that one man killed all five.

As far as 'the thoughts of everyone at the time' go, I'd just like to add that I've read at least one 1888 newspaper article that explored the idea of Jack the myth as events were happening.

[Mitch Rowe]

Im looking for the guy that killed AC. I know for a fact he killed MJK. Im looking for a serial killer.

[perrymason]

I think its very valid to call THE RIPPER a myth even without a credible head count..."Jack" was a pen name and hyped to levels never before seen... around the world.

But for my money someone dark like a mythical Jack killed and mutilated the abdomens of what I believe were 3 consecutive victims....so serial is a little overblown IMHO...but he was a multiple killer.

That Liz Stride is included among his attributed victims with absolutely no evidence physical or circumstantial to link him with that crime...shes likely retroactively added in investigators minds around 2:00am....means they were adding victims based on a spree mentality...an uncontrolled blitz of stabs and cuts on the Unfortunates in the East End.

Jack as we know him to be .....based on the 120 years of literature on the subject and the Canonical ideology in almost every book on him, ...didnt really exist in my opinion.

But a Low man or some Low men made history.

Best regards all.

[Mitch Rowe]

Heres an official Home Office comment on Jack as a mythical figure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWWSHq0S4EQ&feature=related

[Nothing to see]

Jack killed 5 women. Maybe more, but not less. IMO. It's rubbish to suggest 2 serial killers working Whitechapel at the same time. Do you know what a small area Jack was working in? He wasn't taking the tube or buses. He killed where he lived. He may not have been the sharpest knife in the block but he knew what he wanted to do. At his chosen trade, he had the sharpest knife and he knew how to use it.